Salve Regina Solesmes
  • Illini
    Posts: 5
    I am in the process of analyzing organ music based on Marian Antiphons. I am stumped with the tunes I see for Salve Regina Solesmes setting. Even though some literature says the work is based on the chant found in the Liber Usualis, I cannot find it within the composition. Or, if the distinctive opening phrase is obvious, the rest of the chant tune is unrecognizable or deviates. Can anyone help me understand this? I realize in Baroque era, other composed tunes were used, but I am confused over others (Rheinberger, example). Also, how are the phrases divided (tropes)? I am not Catholic, so this is a challenge for me. I had no trouble with the other chants or ModeV of Salve Regina. Any advice will be greatly appreciated!
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Illini,

    Is part of the problem that you're looking for the Solemnes setting, instead of the Solemn Tone or the Festal Tone or the Simple Tone?

    Which organ music are you analyzing? (That is, which composers' pieces). I think you'll find enough organ scholars hereabouts who will know the repertoire well enough to help you find what you're looking for.
  • Illini
    Posts: 5
    You may have just helped clear up much: where can I locate the various tunes--Solemnes, Solemn Tone, Festal Tone? I have researched Simple Tone, and that was much clearer to follow! I'm particularly looking for the basis of works of Renaissance and Baroque: Bull, Cornet (I have figured out Schlick), Boely, Babou, Araujo, Bottazzi, Cabezon, Charpentier, and annonymous works found in Buxheimer Organ Book. In total, I have located around 60 works with the original chant, and about 50 with the Simple tone. Thank you for any advice and help!
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    CMAA's Parish Book of Chant has the simple tone and the solemn tone (two versions of that).

    About "Solemnes": Have you perhaps been seeing references to "Solesmes"? That's the name of the French abbey that researches chant and publishes official chant books for the Church; so references to Solesmes don't indicate a specific setting.
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Illini,

    "Solemnes" isn't really a "tone". Solesmes is a Benedictine Abbey whose work in 'restoring' Gregorian chant was highly praised by the saintly Pope Pius X.

    The various tones for the Marian Antiphons can all be found in the Liber Usualis

  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,782
    While the simple tone as found in the Liber Usualis (post 1920 copies) does not seem to have variations. The Solemn tone has a number of variations,
    Roman, as found in the Liber
    Monastic, as found in the Antiphonale Monasticum (or pre 1910 copies of the liber) Identical to the Ambrosian one or at least the version found in their Liber Vesperalis.
    Dominican,
    Carthusian or is it Cistercian .
    Toledo,
    Sarum
    (Other versions are no doubt available)

    If I get time later I will try to add links to the above. EDIT done! I hope you enjoy comparing them!
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • Illini
    Posts: 5
    Thank you! I will go to the University library tonight. They have old copies of the Liber Usualis, but being a state school, they don't really have much knowledge about the book. I have thought about going back to U. Dayton--they helped me two years ago when I started this project, and were so helpful and encouraging.
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Illini,

    You can download the entire Liber from this website, I believe.
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,471
    Illini - are you aware of the University of Regensburg database of chant sources Antiphonale Synopticon ( http://gregorianik.uni-regensburg.de/an/# ). Early composers might have been looking at variants based on any of these :- http://gregorianik.uni-regensburg.de/an/#id/2133 .
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen Richard Mix
  • Illini
    Posts: 5
    Everyone is being so generous--I'm busy looking up everything. Please include links if you come across them. What a wonderful source you all are!
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    The "resources" page at CMAA's main site, http://musicasacra.com , has links to lots of downloadable materials, including the Liber Usualis.

    Incidentally, for scholarly purposes the Liber Usualis, the "customary book", is not really the most authoritative source, since it was created as a convenient anthology of the most commonly used materials. It's not exhaustive. The materials in the Liber were drawn from the "Graduale Romanum" book, for chants used at Mass, and the "Antiphonale Romanum" book (also called the "Liber Antiphonarius"), for chants used in the Divine Office, the daily prayer services for morning, evening, mid-day, etc. Those two present the official repertoire of the Church for general parish use, as of their publication.

    They don't represent the entirety of chant repertoire, because there are also the books which tomjaw cites above, with chant materials used by various religious orders, and chants that were historically used in some places but which never made it into any official edition.

    Thanked by 2CHGiffen tomjaw
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,801
    Cabezon's tiento on p. 51 is very freely based on the opening 4 notes and makes a fine postlude, but otherwise doesn't seem to follow the chant. I did come across a Toledan Salve variant once, though.
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