Ecumenical Service music choices
  • ViolaViola
    Posts: 411
    Our choir will be joining others for an ecumenical service this Sunday. This year it is hosted by the local Presbyterians.
    We will be singing:
    Introit Veni Creator Spiritus (a nod to us, I think!)
    Hymn Christ is made the sure foundation (the Purcell tune)
    Psalm 104, Anglican double chant (our singers were rather mystified by this at first, but most quite liked it)
    Anthem Viadana Exultate Justi
    Magnificat Stanford in C
    Hymn Let us build a house (Haugen)
    Final hymn Thy hand O God has guided (tune Thornbury)
    Not bad choices, though we resented having to learn that long and tedious Magnificat which seems to be standard rep for the others, but new to most of our folk and not something I would use again. (But the Director of Music at the Presbyterian church is a Catholic. I'm surprised he got away with scheduling the Viadana AS WELL AS the Veni Creator.)
    Anyhow, next year it is our turn to host this. Advice is greatly welcome re choice of hymns and motets. I think anything Marian would be out, though our cathedral is dedicated to Our Lady, so we might justify it. I'd like to include some simple plainchant and equally simple polyphony for the other choirs to join in with us.
    Thank you!!
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen SarahJ
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,501
    I don't have any ideas for you except to say that I find the comment "anything Marian would be out" to be interesting. I understand your point of view, of course, but what I find curious is that the protestants are OK with singing about Mary for Christmas. Personally, I would include something Marian that isn't too difficult and not long.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen Viola
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,093
    Well, the Magnificat itself is Marian....
    Thanked by 5Incardination CHGiffen Viola canadash cmb
  • ViolaViola
    Posts: 411
    The Catholic DoM working for the Presbyterian church has succeeded in introducing them to plainchant, some of it in Latin, and to a certain amount of Latin polyphony. When he recently suggested an Ave Maria (Arcadelt, I think) it was immediately vetoed. But I take your point about the Magnificat, that doesn't seem to bother them perhaps because it doesn't refer to Mary directly.
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Viola,

    Haugen's Let us build a house is an eyesore in the midst of the rest of that repertoire.

    I'm not sure what you mean about the Stanford. It's not Beati quorum via, but it's still representative of a revival of English music after nearly 150 years of inactivity.
    Thanked by 3M. Jackson Osborn Viola chonak
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,415
    Psalm CXXXIII, Ecce, quam bonum
    Behold, how good and joyful a thing it is, * for brethren to dwell together in unity.
    (Coverdale translation of course.)
    I have often found this psalm to be Ideal for oecumenical services. Anglican chant or Gregorian psalm tones as found in St. Dunstan's Plainsong Psalter (Lancelot Andrewes' Press).
    Too, there are many psalms which extol the majesty of God and his mighty works and mercy.

    Also good for consideration as anthems would be any of countless settings of Jubilate Deo, the canticle at Matins. Likewise Te Deum or Benedictus. Too, if you have the resources, Ireland's 'Many Waters' would be splendid.

    Several of an endless repertory of general praise hymns would be ideal, as would Bianco da Siena's 'Come Down, O Love Divine'.
    Thanked by 2Casavant Organist Viola
  • ViolaViola
    Posts: 411
    Chris, I agree absolutely about the Haugen. That wasn't in the original programme for tomorrow but it was a last-minute change by someone, replacing Thou whose almighty word. Sigh.
    My problem with the Stanford Magnificat is that we would never use it in our church; it's too long to sing at Mass. It took a lot of learning by the non-readers in our choir, and some dropped out from the ecumenical service because they didn't want to devote time and effort to something they'd never sing again. It's a pot-boiler with the other two choirs, apparently they sing it frequently. We've done the Morley faburden one, and I might suggest that one next year if a Magnificat is needed.
    MJO, thank you for very useful suggestions.
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,193
    Indeed, one doesn't normally encounter the Magnificat at Mass. And surely the Ecumenical service wasn't a "Mass." On the other hand if it was an evening service (or perhaps even an afternoon service) it may have have had somewhat of a "Vespers" or "(Evening) Prayer" aspectl, which would make singing the Magnificat seem more appropriate.
    Thanked by 1Viola
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Viola,

    May I recommend something I've heard Arthur Connick do, in terms of a Magnificat? He has the choir sing the Magnificat at the end of communion, to psalm tones and fauxbourdons, intermixed.
    Thanked by 1Viola
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    For simple pieces in a polyphonic style, it wouldn't hurt to sing "If ye love me" (Tallis) or "I will not leave you comfortless" (Titcombe).
    Thanked by 3CHGiffen M. Jackson Osborn Viola
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,193
    He has the choir sing the Magnificat at the end of communion, to psalm tones and fauxbourdons, intermixed

    IF this is an ECUMENICAL (ie. interdenominational) service, I seriously doubt it would have the structure of a MASS with COMMUNION. But Arthur's style of doing a Magnificat is worthy. The question is whether the non-Catholic participating choirs would be up to this sort of singing.
    Thanked by 1Viola
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,415
    This service could be a form of vespers or evensong.

    It could take the form of 'lessons and carols' based on 1) the life of Christ, 2) the liturgical year, 3) the gifts of the spirit, 4) the beatitudes, or any other spiritual theme.
    The readings could be interspersed with pertinent psalms, hymns, and anthems.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen Viola
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Charles,

    I'm sorry for the confusion. I didn't mean that the Ecumenical thing should follow Arthur's practice, commendable as it is. Rather, I meant that a greater use of the Magnificat at communion within the Mass would supplant the need to sing Stanford's Magnificat -- although I'm partial to music of that period in England. After a long drought, water flowed in the desert, and beauty rose to the occasion.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen Viola
  • ViolaViola
    Posts: 411
    Just back from the service now which was at 4pm our (UK) time.The combined choirs were about 65 strong, and the Stanford Magnificat went down a storm. They all, even the non-RCs enjoyed the Exultate Justi as well, which was taken at a fair old speed. The worst thing was in fact the Haugen thing which was not well sung.
    I like the idea of doing a Magnificat with chant and faburden, thanks for the suggestion, which of course is how the Morley one works, and I think there's a Viadana version (?) that has alternating chant and polyphony. If it's our turn next year I propose to finish with the appropriate Marian antiphon.
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