Yes, Jeffrey, I know there is a specific arranger/major publisher's retrofit of "Ave Maria" to the Boghoroditze (if that's the Rachmaninov you're meaning.) Sang it in grad school (and in '88 in St. Isaac's in St. Petersburg, where we got booted out by the commies for doing so.) That's the rub about CPDL; someone in the throes of zeal or self-delusion believes that by transcribing something extent and making even the slightest alteration, say adding a tenuto marking, amounts to a licit "arrangement" or edition. Again, caveat emptor.
By the way, I got through your interview with Prof. Pickstock- wow, excellent. Now onto her article about Messiaen.

In these matters, I always err on the side of conservative. But there is wiggle room. As long as you're making a good faith effort to honor the copyright, you're doing better than alot of folks who just do as they please and hope they don't get caught, or assume they won't.

If there's any doubt at all that someone somewhere has copyright, and I'm about to infringe it, I'll purchase the real thing, even if I don't agree with the editor's contributions. I can always have the choir put in whatever interpretive corrections I want to make right into the score.

On the other hand, at the risk of stating what may be obvious, there are several catalogues that list music in print that can be consulted at any reputable music library. It's a good place to start at any rate. If it appears as though what you're looking for is no longer in print, you can contact the last known publisher and find out what the copyright date was. I'm not sure what the guidelines are, but I believe for print music copyright lives for 70 years. If 70 years are past, and you're not able to find any indication that it's been renewed or an edition is commercially available in print, I'd be comfortable firing up the ol' Xerox (tm) and fill up the library.

(Disclaimer: I am not an attorney, and the above is not legal advice.)

Again, assuming that Jeffrey's question regards the movement from the Vespers...
1. I've already confirmed that I've held in my hand and sang such an arrangement 20 years ago. Perhaps it was this one available from Pepper, not that I think this answers all copyright concerns:
AVE MARIA
RACHMANINOFF / HINKLE
THEODORE PRESSER CO.
4823324 SATB
2. Also not an attorney, but as I am a composer/arranger, it would not at all occur to me to revisit the "crafty" concept of repositioning some words or syllables of the superimposed Latin text, or the imposition of markings, or the re-voicing of certain parts as a rightful claim to a new copyright. The farther one roams away from the autograph or an Uhrtext, the more suspicious of intent I get.
3. On the other hand, when a composer such as Proulx retrofits text and adjusts the musical settings of other composers as he did with his MISSA OECUMENICA, I am not uncomfortable as the intent seems genuine due to its practical and artistic success in bringing the beauty of Russian homophony to the text of the Roman Ordinary. (Can we agree not to debate here whether there exists such a need?) And, as Proulx did not compose a Gloria for that Mass, my having done so, keeping the melodic and harmonic motifs and structures of Proulx's arrangement relatively in tact, but with newly composed portions to accomodate certain portions of the hymn that the original sources could not- I believe that constitutes a rightful claim to copyright. Simply put, both Proulx and I fill a perceived void that we believe has unique merit. So, regarding the AVE MARIA on CPDL, it seems that someone needs to arbitrate to what degree that arrangement artistically supercedes the merit of earlier editions still under copyright protection. Was there a real deficiency that needed a more informed or compositionally sound remediation? Or is this, basically, a mere re-quotation with a few aspects re-arranged (pardon the puns.)
4. The very real fact that many respected composer/arrangers are constantly re-packaging their own works and those of the giants (how many "new" versions of PASSION CHORALE can be justifiably be added to Lenten "cantatas" offered in Pepper's Walmartian catalogue?) denigrates the authentic, scholarly work of people like Mike because the average parish choir director generally will opt for such "versions" simply out of convenience. And now that CPDL's catalogue has burgeoned (sp?) and become the go-to alternative to spending big bucks for the inflated cost of modern octavos and major works, that easy, convenient decision to "go there" is attractive in extremis. And any veteran of CPDL knows that a significant percentage of these arrangements are faulty due to myriad reasons.
5. I cannot claim to know if CPDL has staff assigned to filter through these concerns as the contributions flow in to them. But, if not, perhaps it's time that they have someone akin to Gary Penkala's efforts at CanticaNova.
Pax and out,
Charles

Your summing lesson is precisely right! Here am I sitting on this wonderful piece of music that I want to upload so you can have it too, but I'm uncertain. We know what Sergei would want!

no, no your posts are fabulous. The admin just put that in there as a good general rule not directed at anyone in particular (except maybe me).

Charles --

Thanks for clarifying about the music. I think it's been about seven years since I sang the version with Latin text and maybe six since I heard the original Bogoroditse in Russia. So I wasn't at all sure whether the music had been adapted for Latin. Glad to hear that the two scores are the same.

(BTW, the original text is in Church Slavonic, not Russian. CS is the liturgical language of the Russian Orthodox -- and a beautiful language, if I might say so.)

In order to perform this piece with the superimposed (and not entirely accurate) Latin text, some rhythmic modifications and compromises are needed. The adjustments in themselves might constitute sufficient "arranging" to justify copyright; however, if you want to do something original, just translate the Slavonic text rather than clamping a western-rite prayer onto it.

Bogoroditse devo, raduisya; Blagodatnaya Mariya, Bog s Toboyu. Blagoslovienna Ty v zhenakh i blagoslovien plod khreva Tvoyego yako Spasa rodila yesi dush nashikh.

Mother of God, rejoice. Blessed Mary, God is with Thee; Blessed art Thou among women and blessed is the fruit of your womb because you bore the Saviour of our souls.

It's like a cross between the Regina Coeli and the Ave Maria. Of course the western ear wants a prayer it already knows, so I understand the desire to make it one or the other, but there really shouldn't be a problem with singing it in some sort of translation.

I read many years ago (at least 35) that Rachmaninov himself sanctioned the Latin text. I believe it was in a journal devoted to ecclesastical art, which was published from the 1930s through 1950s.