Question for choir directors: have you ever timed the parts of the Ordinary in a Latin Mass?
  • PlanctusAnglorum
    Posts: 25
    I ask this question because I'm curious about how much time might be allotted to particular parts of the Mass for polyphony, or a combination of chant and polyphony. In particular, I am looking at the Sanctus/Benedictus and the Agnus Dei. The goal would be to sing continuously through each part of the Mass, and move seamlessly from one liturgical action to the next, without ending too soon and having unnecessary silence, or conversely, causing undue delay because of the length of a particular choral setting. Of course, I know that the length can vary from one celebration to the next, depending on several different factors, but I was just wondering if perhaps some of you choir directors out there would be able to give any estimates based upon your own personal experiences. I'm sure that there are enough commonalities to come up with some average time ranges.

    Thank you in advance for whatever insights you may have to offer.
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,415
    For plainchant settings the time would vary depending on the degree of neumaticism in your chosen chant. For instance, the cum jubilo Sanctus-Benedictus would take a little longer to sing than the Lux et origo setting of the same. Too, each of us would likely sing these texts and chants at a different 'tempo', depending on us being who we are, the acoustics, the singers, and even the weather and the particular day. What a chant scholar's tempo at a given time and place is may not at all be the right one for you in your situation. You should sing these through yourself and arrive at a 'tempo' that is fitting for your situation.

    I just sang the cum jubilo Sanctus-Benedictus in almost exactly 75 seconds and the Lux et origo in 55+. Some (most, I think) would sing these chants more slowly than I. I, for one, like my chant with a good portion of forward motion and drive. Others are more sedate in their performances. (And it is worth noting here that the very text will implicate tempo.) There is no 'right' tempo for any chant because there are so many variables such as the room and so forth. Too, the particular 'method' by which your chant is sung will have an inevitable influence on 'tempo'.

    For polyphony it would be impossible to set temporal parameters because of the wide variance of time required for a given composer's given setting. A setting of Sanctus-Benedictus could take anywhere from three to five or six minutes, if not more. And for polyphony there are the added variables mentioned in the above paragraphs.

    One can always ask his celebrant to 'take his time' or warn him that Sanctus 'will take longer today'. Too, if a priest knows in advance what his choir are doing at a given mass, he can tailor the tempo of his own ritual acts accordingly.
    Thanked by 3StimsonInRehab CHGiffen bhcordova
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,782
    I have timings of all the Kyriale, I will look into listing the information here, also somewhere in my files I have the timing of Hassler's Missa Dixit Maria, I may also have the Byrd 3 part. I timed these to point out that singing polyphonic Ordinaries including the Creed does not take as long as people think. Will try to dig these out...
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  • Chaswjd
    Posts: 269
    Do I go too far in suggesting that you might time out the homily if you are concerned about how long mass takes? I am always amazed at priests who won't pray Eucharistic Prayer No. 1 because it takes too long, but then bloviate during the homily. Cut a few minutes from the homily and you are fine with EP No. 1. Contrast the timing of

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVoZjTLh5xk

    with

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6E-7plOcjwM

    And if you are looking to cut time from someplace, there is always this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GO3WjU_cR4


    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,086
    I don't worry about the timing of the Ordinary. It's the Offertory and any offertory motet that worries me. Any more, we pretty much do Latin hymns so we can break off gracefully. Bu if it's a long antiphon (e.g., Precatus est Moyses) and a fast priest, we don't even bother to rehearse anything for that slot.
  • madorganist
    Posts: 906
    With a quick but very reverent FSSP priest, based on Sunday's High Mass:
    Sanctus to Hanc igitur - 1:40
    Hanc igitur to Elevation - :45
    After the Elevation to Per omnia - 2:10
    Agnus Dei to Confiteor - 3:05

    I hope this is helpful. I recommend timing your celebrant at a Low Mass. I don't see why any of this should differ at High Mass, as none of the celebrant's prayers during the choral parts is sung - obviously, that wouldn't sound so good.
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