Seasonal propers vs. feast day propers
  • adjpanderson13
    Posts: 23
    I'm planning for an Advent Mass that happens to fall on the memorial of St. Lucy. Do I need to use the propers for her memorial (as listed in the Graduale), or can I still use the propers for the 2nd Thursday of Advent?

    Or in general, is it permissible to use the propers of the time instead of a Saint's feast day propers when you have a Mass on that day? Is it different if it's a memorial rather than a feast? Any other things that should be taken into consideration?
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    ADJPAnderson,

    Since I see that you're relatively new around here, let me help you get more useful answers.

    Please state whether your question pertains to the Ordinary Form (Novus Ordo, Missal of Blessed Paul VI, Mass of Vatican II) or the Extraordinary Form (Vetus Ordo, Missal of St. John XXIII, Tridentine Mass, Traditional Latin Mass, Mass of the Ages....) Based only on your comment, is it permissible to use the propers of the time it sounds as if you're in an OF environment since, to the best of my knowledge, there isn't such a thing as "the proper of the time" in the EF.

    If you're in St. Lucy's parish, the situation is not the same as if you're not, and I think that's true in both forms.

    My Ordo (for the EF) says that St. Lucy's is a 3rd Class Feast, which (ordinarily) takes precedence over the Advent Week Day.



    Chris
    Thanked by 2adjpanderson13 eft94530
  • adjpanderson13
    Posts: 23
    Thank you Chris!

    The Mass will indeed be in the Ordinary Form, sorry I didn't mention.

    So, I could hypothetically sing the propers for the second week of Advent while the other liturgical texts are for the Mass of St. Lucy?

    Nothing against St. Lucy, but I do think the community will be more focused on the Advent season than on her.
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    Talk to the priest, and see which readings he will be using. If he is using the ferial readings a good case can be made for using the propers of Thursday II of Advent, particularly with a connexion between the Gospel and Communio. And don't forget that the OF Graduale always offers the Introit "Gaudeamus omnes in Domino" (with names changed as appropriate) for saints' days--if you sing this Introit on All Saints' people may make a connexion.
    Thanked by 2M. Jackson Osborn Andrew_Malton
  • Andrew_Malton
    Posts: 1,187
    Also, since this is music in the ordinary form, it's not useful to ask or think "permissible" , but instead 1 Cor 10:23.
    Thanked by 1adjpanderson13
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    ADJPAnderson,

    Don't needlessly separate things which are naturally joined in a wonderful symbiosis.

    The Calendar of the Saints and the Calendar of the Season (I'm guessing what they're called in English) interweave around each other. St. Lucy doesn't have to be put aside because people are focusing on Advent. Saints, after all, died waiting for (and looking for) the coming of the Lord, and sometimes suffered greatly in that waiting.


    Thanked by 1CCooze
  • CCoozeCCooze
    Posts: 1,259
    And Lucy is listed in the Canon of the Mass. It's always nice to get to hear these saints' names on their feast days, as well.

    https://www.sanctamissa.org/en/spirituality/saints-in-the-roman-canon.pdf
    Thanked by 1a_f_hawkins
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,471
    Talk to the priest, and see which readings he will be using.
    Not quite that simple I fear. The norm here, your diocese may differ, is for lections of the day including resp. psalm and acclamation. The orations should be for St Lucy, and the entrance and communion, if spoken, likewise for Lucy. All this is laid out, though coded, in the diocesan Ordo. So, its one ribbon in the Lectionary (for the day, but celebrant has choice), and one in the Sacramentary (for St Lucy), given that, I would go with Lucy for the GR marker.
    Incidentally, I recall noticing a rubric specific to saints mentioned in the Roman Canon, but have forgotten what it related to. ¿was it a recommendation of EP1 in such cases?
  • Caleferink
    Posts: 434
    Incidentally, I recall noticing a rubric specific to saints mentioned in the Roman Canon, but have forgotten what it related to. ¿was it a recommendation of EP1 in such cases?

    GIRM #365 (in USA edition): "The choice between the Eucharistic Prayers found in the Order of Mass is suitably guided by the following norms:

    (a) Eucharistic Prayer I, or the Roman Canon, which may always be used, is especially suited for use on days to which a proper text for the Communicantes (In communion with those whose memory we venerate) is assigned or in Masses endowed with a proper form of the Hanc igitur (Therefore, Lord, we pray) and also in the celebrations of the Apostles and of the Saints mentioned in the Prayer itself; likewise it is especially suited for use on Sundays, unless for pastoral reasons Eucharistic Prayer III is preferred." (emphasis mine)
    Thanked by 2a_f_hawkins eft94530
  • adjpanderson13
    Posts: 23
    Thank you all for the insight! Big help
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