Hymn for the day
  • Rphillips
    Posts: 40
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  • CCoozeCCooze
    Posts: 725
    ...and then we act hateful to people simply because they might consider themselves "conservative," and continue to post new threads, fully intent on belittling anyone who disagrees with our own view of what "not hating" others actually means.
    Thanked by 2tomjaw Incardination
  • Kathy
    Posts: 4,978
    Rphillips,

    I thought you were posting this text to say that it is poetically and theologically inadequate. But I see now that you are not saying that.

    If Jesus is an ethical teacher, I believe we must dig deeper into His mysteries to discover what those teachings are. Preachey, banal texts are not enough, especially when they are used to bludgeon people making responsible choices with accusations of xenophobia.

    For a model of a hymn that does what I mean, kindly examine the Letter to the Philippians, chapter 2. It contains a moral exhortation rooted in the mysteries of Jesus Christ, and some lovely poetry that is thought by Scripture scholars to be an early liturgical hymn. What do you think about Phil 2?
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 1,327
    @Rphilips Not again!

    Anyway I am not an American citizen so do not have a horse in this race... but I am told that the other main party on offer were rather keen on killing babies and came up with this childrens camp policy. So what would Jesus say... Baby killers or as you delightfully describe them 'Nazis'.

    Anyway from the other side of the pond, I would suggest that you should study some history and perhaps visit one of the concentration camps preserved across Europe. You will discover that the camps in Texas have almost no similarity to the death camps of Communist Russia or 1940s Germany, and have much more in common with a children's summer camp.

    As for likening Trump et al. as in anyway similar to the Nazis or Communists is deeply insensitive to the many victims of those regimes, some are still alive and will be more than willing to explain exactly what an evil regime is and what it does.

    As for helping those less fortunate than ourselves... well redistributing the wealth of the the top 0.01% among the top 10%, does not interest me... If you are really looking to help the poor and destitute of this world I would suggest, https://www.marysmeals.org.uk
    I am sure that they fund raise in the U.S. but noticeably have not found children in the US needing their help.
    Thanked by 2CCooze Incardination
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Fully aware that I shouldn't respond to this furtherance, I nonetheless wonder what it is that you, Rp, expect of your readership? Presuming we've all failed to practice cardinal virtues whilst being prone to cardinal sins, what would YOU (and Christ) have us do? Ought we to leave the bubble of our daily lives, trundle down to south Texas/NM/AZ/CA and perpetually sing "De colores" or "Whatsoever you do" to the refugee parents and children in the detention facilities? Should we kneel in prayer outside these edifaces praying for their immediate closure?
    Would it be enough salve upon your conscience were adherents to this forum to forswear any allegiance, nee fealty towards the office and person of the presidency of the republic?
    From my vantage over these two provocative, presumptuous threads of yours, there remains a patina of self-referencing and self-serving theology that in no ways encompasses the "lessons" of our Savior's life, mission and sacrifice.
    I'm sure any further communiques you endeavor to fertilize everyone's moral indignities will be both entertaining and e'er so earnest. Ask yourself this before you type again: has this exercise here redeemed you from any and all failures to act in this matter? Has all "this" been enough? Yes, after all, you're right: thoughts and prayers (and posts herein) aren't enough.
    I know I will regret posting this. I've got a lot to answer for.
    Thanked by 2Incardination tomjaw
  • Rphillips
    Posts: 40
    .
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 1,681
    Not again!
    And Tomjaw isn't going to let go at that either. I'm not sure I can speak on behalf of all holocaust survivors but there are a number of them among my friends and my friends' parents (some of whom had enough cash to escape even as others were being returned from these shores to Germany. Their motto was and is "Never again".

    On the bright side, it should cheer everyone that Trump suddenly seems to be a convert to the rule of law.
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 9,574
    If you don't like the law, get it changed. But you are not free to disregard and disobey it while it is in effect. I would say to Congress, 'Get to work." A glass of water and a day's work would kill most of them, anyway.
    Thanked by 3Carol irishtenor tomjaw
  • CCoozeCCooze
    Posts: 725
    Please stop acting as though anyone here has said anything about Trump, positive or negative, besides you.

    Many of us have been hearing about nothing but this subject (odd, isn't it? If even Planned Parenthood is mourning this "separation of children from their parents," then you know that there is something other than moral outrage in this conflation of the situation), but this forum isn't the place for it.
    Our priest's homily on Sunday was about the difference between civil discourse and spewing outrage, which is an un-Christian thing to do.

    ---

    Regardless, how such "hymn text" as you posted in your OP managed to be published anywhere, is beyond me.
    Not because of its so-called "message," but because it sounds like it was written by an 8-year-old who has just finished his first semester in the "this is why Catholics are hypocrites" class, otherwise known as "Bible History" (or whatever that Protestant-excuse for anything relating to the Bible was, back in middle school, which I swiftly switched out of), and was given the assignment of rewriting Bible text to teach others a lesson.
    Thanked by 1Incardination
  • Mr Phillips,

    In so far as you don't know any of us, I should wonder why a person who calls on us to treat others humanely and all that goes on a rant such as you have subjected us to for the second post in as many days.


    You evidently live in a vernacular Mass context (or you wouldn't be concerned about hymn texts such as the one you raise). Can you give us an example of a hymn you find objectionable?


    To your text.

    people claiming to be Catholic are doing morally repugnant things


    I completely agree. Anyone claiming to be Catholic while openly advocating for the destruction of the innocent unborn would fit your definition. In fact, there's a canon in the laws of the Church which provides for their exclusion from Holy Communion.

    Until then, let's all think about the words we sing, and want our congregations to sing, and make sure we are living/voting/supporting consistently with Christ and what he taught.


    Right again. Words which focus on how wonderful we are, or even how important we are, surely are out of place at Mass. In fact, before the reforms of the late council, there were assigned, not optional, texts which were sung. Others could supplement these, but these were required. I further agree that we shouldn't live what my wife calls a compartmentalized life, the attitude which says "I won't give that part of my life to God". America is far from a perfect country, and many people are of the opinion that there was not a good choice in the last general election. Given that, if Mr. Trump does evil things, he's only unlike the rest of us in that he's President of the United States, and we're only whatever we are other than that.

    "Silence in the face of evil is itself evil: God will not hold us guiltless. Not to speak is to speak. Not to act is to act."


    Right again, but not because you're quoting Dietrich Bonhoffer. More than one pope has said the same thing.

    I know most of you would like to remain in your church music/liturgy bubbles


    Actually, what you should know is that this is a forum for the discussion of Church-music related topics. This is, therefore, the appropriate place to discuss church music/liturgy questions. On occasion we engage in other less weighty topics, and some enjoy these more than others. Think of it this way: in a bedroom a person sleeps and in a kitchen, he prepares food. You (and most people) would be right to be surprised if a person you found was sleeping in the kitchen or preparing food in the bedroom.


    Some hereabouts will not use that hymn because they dislike (or think overused) the tune Aurelia. Others will find the text banal, as Corinne does, just above, and thus disapprove of it. I think, however, that you will find some here who both like the tune and approve of the sentiment of the text.

    God bless,

    Chris
    Thanked by 1Incardination
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 7,482
    The claim that silence in the face of evil is immoral is widespread and deserves to be examined more closely.

    First, it does not seem to be a teaching from Christ Himself.

    It is obvious that it does not apply in all cases; else the dictum would seem to contradict the example of our Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ, who went to his Passion without complaint against the gravest evil of human history: His own judicial murder.

    Moreover, he made little to no public protest (as far as is related to us in the Scriptures) about the dominance of the Roman empire in the Holy Land, a dominance that appears unjust now under the principles of international relations in our time, and perhaps did then too. So there can be cases in which evil done to oneself, or even to others (!) might be perceived and yet without persistent complaint.

    Moreover, there cannot be a duty to protest all evils, because the quantity of them is so great as to make the task impossible. The impossible cannot be obligatory.

    Apparently some distinctions must be made.

    I fully expect that this deep subject could be explored at book-length, and very likely has been, and it deserves thorough, sober,analysis using the methods of moral theology and philosophy which only a few of our frequent participants possess at a professional level.

    And yet we all have heard the dictum about opinions: everybody has one.

    Rather than encouraging the unproductive flow of mere opinions on a subject whose factual basis is widely misunderstood, I think it will be best to close the thread here.
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