Hello,

You may want to consider a used instrument. At the risk of being burned alive by some adherents to company A and company R:

Allen’s Renaissance technology came out in 1998. It’s still the basis of every organ they sell. Now there’s touchscreens for the MIDI modules and a USB jack for saving pistons, but that’s it. Even the much-vaunted GeniSys system is just the same old alterable voice shtick introduced in 1972.

Rodgers’ Parallel Digital Imaging, with stereo samples of the pipework, was introduced in ‘93 and is still going strong.

So you could buy a used organ from two decades ago, with the same stoplist as a new one, that would not sound different since the underlying tech is the same. And then there are those, myself included, who prefer the sound of big late-80s ADC Allens to the Renaissance ones.

All this to say, unless you go the Hauptwerk route, you may be happier spending ~$10k on an older, 3-manual organ, than spending ~$30k on a new 2-manual one with the same technology. You’d then have extra money to buy an Alesis reverb unit and equalizer to really get it sounding good, particularly if it’s not got external speakers. The harsh sound in your face (or in your headphones) really needs to be tempered with some good reverb and equalized to be pleasant after a few hours.

Good luck, and thank you for your service to the church.

Everyone:

What are your opinions and thoughts about the Ahlborn-Galanti organs and the Johannus organs? Are one of these better than the other and, if so, how and why? I have been leaning toward the AG2100 because of its features and price point. But its lesser price point in itself could be an indicator of quality deficiencies. Should this be a red flag I should pay attention to? Would I be better of with going for a used Johannus? Allen probably has the best used part supply and rugged endurance. Rodgers has changed ownership hands like a hot potato so I am suspicious about that.

Which brand do you prefer and why? Keep in mind that I am very disabled and would be unable to do the tonal finishing and installation of reverbs and equalizers at additional expense. I would need to have an organ already tonally finished and in its final state when it is delivered to my home. I have no more room for external speaker systems of any sort, so I am dependent on finding the organ with the best sound in a self-contained console, new or used, upon receipt.

So...What organ do YOU feel would best serve me and my objectives? As I have stated earlier, It is my desire that I would be able to use it for therapy to further stave off the decline of the use of my only partially functional yet painful hand I have left and it is my non-dominant left hand. I would also use the organ for inspiration and composition of church music, and maybe, if I could get a handle on it, composing organ music solely for the left hand and foot, for those of us so disabled. Time is NOT on my side! But I pray and hope that God will make a way for my dream to become a reality as I have no real money I can bring to the table. I have found an AG2100 for $13,900 tonally finished and installed in my home, but at this time, that is but a pipe dream. That is why I wish to explore all other options with your help!

RE: "I'm exclusively playing real pipes at work, and Hauptwerk at home."

Where do you find Hauptwerk organs? Do the sell self-contained models and, if so, for how much? Where can I go to get some personal experience with one? I thought Hauptwerks were only a digital add-on to existing organs. Please elucidate me more on this. And thank you for what you shared of your experience and thoughts about the AG2100, so far my leading contender in my search.

https://www.midiworks.ca

Swerd wrote >>> Which brand do you prefer and why?
Prefer: Phoenix
Why: Quality of sound exceeds both R and A, IMO
Note: There are minimal external speakers required, however please remember that these can be mounted between studs in drywall, so as not to take up a footprint in the room.

Phoenix is out of Canada.
Do not know where you, are but they do have sales points in the US. http://www.phoenixorgans.com

Phoenix Organs are manufactured in Canada.

I have a Phoenix at home and it works wonders. As well there's a Phoenix where I sing. Both are superb instruments. They offer some really inexpensive solutions, but the quality is better than any Allen. Closest to pipes an inexpensive digital organ can get. PM me if you would like more info.

If your heart is set on Hauptwerk, they do that as well. They can basically do anything for you, be it a very small 2 manual organ to a huge over 100-stop 4 manual instrument.

And, for the record, my heart is not set on Hauptwerk. They, too, don't offer self-contained consoles and I would find the computer monitors cumbersome and difficult to operate on the fly given all my disabilities. I think I would prefer a much more traditional console so long as it has decent digital sound samples of true pipe organs and a similarly decent set of speakers and amplifier channels within the organ console itself.

Phoenix Organs will also do custom-built instruments. In fact, even though there are base models on the website, the organs are all custom built making any adjustments minimal in terms of cost. This could include placing speakers inside the instrument, if necessary. Good luck on finding an organ!

I would consider calling a dealer who might have something older, but reliable in their warehouse/workshop. It might be the kind of thing that they probably aren't going to install in a church at this point, but they might offer you a deal to take it off their hands.

In this situation, I would probably recommend an Allen, because it is usually easiest to get replacement parts, should they be necessary.

Hello Everyone!

This morning, I spoke to the Rodgers rep in Portland near the airport. He said he has worked on A-G, Allen, Johannus, Phoenix, and of course, Rodgers organs for over 30 years. I asked him various pointed questions about each brand and their respective price points compared to quality and durability of their organs. Of course he claims that Rodgers was the best, I wouldn't expect him to say otherwise. But he did give me a fuller picture of where everyone is coming from in the marketing of their brand of organs. Bottom Line: Rodgers is not owned by Johannus. They are owned by the same entity that owns Johannus, Makin, and others. He claims that for the past two years, Rodgers has beat all comers in sales and is on the most stable and profitable footing of every other organ manufacturer that I have been considering. Also, my desire to be able to select the exact stop and composite registration without being restricted by a manufacturer's historic style/intonation samples setup was first pioneered by Rodgers and is now being used by A-G, with Allen, Johannus, Phoenix, and others not allowing you to do that! He also warned to be very cautious when purchasing an A-G, Johannus, or Phoenix organ as they usually do not have a good network of service support or presence in the U.S. like Rodgers and Allen do. Rodgers is here to stay and, although owned by an overseas entity, their organs are significantly being recognized as among the best in the world. Unfortunately, they are priced out of my market; however, he told me that an older Rodgers digital organs 3-10 years old are available often at just a fraction of the price of a newer organ with similar specs so to always check his inventory before buying new. So...I guess I will keep my options open while I work at saving for my elusive organ.

THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR HELP AND INPUT!

I have been offered a Johannus Sweelinck 37 digital organ for $8500. Is that a fair price or should I try to negotiate for a lower price or look elsewhere? She sounds like she may be a dealer, should that be a consideration in determining the price.

Hi irishtenor,

It is a used organ being sold by a dealer on consignment. It is 8 years old and in excellent condition per the dealer. It is currently being stored in a warehouse in Tracy, CA. I wish to see and play it but it must be inaccessible as the dealer has not offered any facilitation to do so. She has reduced her price from AN ORIGINAL PRICE OF $9500, then $8500, and now $7900 + 1/2 of the shipping charges to my home. The organ also comes with an adjustable bench, a much needed accessory for me as I am rather short in stature with short legs and arms. I am unable to move forward on this until I can amass that sum of money! Being disabled, I am not able to go out and get a second job, much less a first job, to bring in the needed capital. I'm just praying that if God wants me to have that organ, He will make a way where there now seems to be no way. I would appreciate others' prayers along this line as well!

SW

I've looked at the Insignias too, but I have found them to be as unavailable as the Allegiants. I need more time to save up my money so maybe they will become more available and less expensive with time. Their owners obviously love them! I knew of two Allegiant 677s for sale. One in a dark oak finish on Ebay for around $8000 (he just increased his price from $7250!) in LaGrange, TX, but he will not ship! You must pick up and remove the organ in person when you pay him! The other organ is in the medium oak finish which I prefer and was being sold by Anderson Organ Works in Logan, Utah, but it has since been sold. He was willing to pay for main-floor delivery/shipping within 120 miles of the store and his asking price was $8250.

I've heard that the A778s run on average between $15-19K. I located one that had been for sale in 2007 for $25,000 in KS, and I can only assume that it has since been sold as he has never responded to any of my emails. I did locate an Insignia 527 with Marshall Ogletree Associates, but there was no price or shipping/pick-up info for it. They also have offered a Windsor 840 organ with all the bells and whistles, but I believe it has a Melody and a Bass Coupler. These were shown as a Continuo and a Solo Coupler, which were the apparent former names for the Bass and Melody Couplers. Again, no price or shipping/pickup info. Being that I was dealing with Marshall Ogletree Associates, I think I can safely assume that their prices for these organs would be astronomical, so I did not pursue them!

I have also since encountered the Allegiant 698 three-manual organ. It is quite similar to the A778 and appears to be a newer breed of organ, so it most likely would cost more than the A778, as it looks like it was manufactured 2-3 years+ after the A778. Again, the features are essentially identical between the A778 and A698.

I think I could be happy with any one of these Rogers instruments, especially the three manuals, which I usually played and learned on. As for an update on my financing, I am still in the saving mode. I currently have about $1000 saved in the bank. My lawyer is issuing a demand for $10,000, and said he might accept as low as $6000 if they issued a counter-offer to settle. He reasonably hopes that we will net between $7500 and $8000 though, and I advised him that I would rather go to court if they only offered $6000, unless he could convince me otherwise. Then I have a powerchair that I thought I had sold for $3500. The lady said that she has to move first, and then she could start making $300/month payments until she paid the $3500 asking price off in full. Other than that, I am still saving and waiting until an acceptable organ becomes available.

So...here is where you all come in! Please, if you know of such an organ becoming available, please let me know ASAP and let the seller know about me and my situation. Of course, anyone who wishes to contribute to my cause is welcome to do so, as time is not on my side or helping my condition any. (LOL!) But "God moves in mysterious ways His wonders to perform," and this has been a long-time prayer request of mine, that He would provide me with an organ in His time if He wishes for me to have one! Thanks everybody!

SW