It is a sad lie that young people want W&P (or worse) music at Mass

Indeed. When they become aware that such is not only available, but what the Church prefers, they choose that which is transcendent. Funny (true) story: the daughter of the couple who led the folk group joined my youth choir and enjoyed it more than the stuff that was (supposedly) for her age. When I announced to the choir that they would sing Maundy Thursday (this is many moons ago, in a Vernacular Mass parish), and that they would learn the Pange Lingua, they jolly well buckled down and learned it.

To say that all young people want traditional music is incorrect.

Many do.

Many also want drums and guitars and piano.

If we held a P&W workshop in any town, we'd see lots of young people at it too.

What we'd be unlikely to see a lot of young people at is the "in between" - a workshop held on the music of the Glory and Praise years or the Haugen and Haas music. I'm sure there'd be some - but it wouldn't see the popularity of the P&W or the traditional music workshops.

What we'd be unlikely to see a lot of young people at is the "in between" - a workshop held on the music of the Glory and Praise years or the Haugen and Haas music.

Indeed. In some young people's minds, G&P and H&H are "traditional Catholic music" (i.e. it's what they grew up with, which for most people is what "traditional" means).

"Want" is a problematic term and can refer to many things. One thing I have been most impressed with at the Sacred Music workshops has been that the music has not been based on what people want, or like, in the first place, but on what God wants first. (The opposite is the case in my parish where the music is based on what it is perceived the people, especially young people, want). If our first desire is for what God wants, then that is what we want too. Sacred music is prayer and, as one of the canons reminded us, God has praised Himself first so that we might know how to praise Him.

What is so beautiful to see in these young people is that their desire for and love of sacred music flows out of their love for God and the Holy Mass. My 18 year old daughter, who makes beautiful music with her viola in the strings ensemble at our local university, commented on the difference she feels in playing beautiful music in the orchestra and singing beautiful sacred music. It's of another dimension, the sacred dimension; the other is profane (and I use that term in its proper sense, "not sacred").

Taste in styles of music has to do with many factors, but appreciation for and love of sacred music comes from a different place.

The weekly 'youth Mass' at the nearest parish is packed with young people. The EF Mass where I sing in the schola on Sundays is packed with young people.

Amusing aside: I didn't even know there was such a thing as a youth Mass at the nearest parish until the day when for some reason I needed to go at a particular time that I don't usually go, and to my astonishment there was something like a night club going on. Pounding music, leaping and sweating youth. I, in my usually dark colored long skirt, long sleeves, veil, and so on, just simply took a place in a pew and cheerfully participated (minus the jumping about). I think the priest nearly had a heart attack, fearing I might make a scene or confront him afterwards, as he knew me from the 'very early morning quiet old people's Masses' that I usually attend during the week and he knows I chant in the schola at the EF (which is at a different church).

I have to say I was touched by the very earnest piety of the kids at the youth Mass, as I am by the kids at the Latin Mass. I do take care not to ever go at that time again, though. It's really way too much loud sensory stimulation for me.

This is a tale of the 'everybody I talk to' syndrome. People who say such things, whether they are in our camp or in another camp, really talk to a select coterie of folk. It is easy to think (and to dream!) that those in attendance at a given workshop, convention, colloquium, or mass, etc., are representative of 'everyone'. Sad to say, they are in all likelihood not.

There is hope that 'our' numbers are increasing amongst youth and adults. However, it is likely that the percentages and numbers will be consistent with those of the populace who attend symphony, opera, chamber music, sacred choral concerts, and organ recitals - a relative (but hopefully a growing) minority. It will likely ever be so.

Still, let us celebrate the wisdom of those who are lovers of our musical patrimony and the liturgy which it graces. There is increasing much for which to be thankful.

"If you're a fan of the Latin Mass, you can't be in favor of immigrants or health care or clean water. If you're concerned about Civil Rights, it's because you've left all those other bad ideas (like the Latin Mass) behind."

W.C. Fields — 'I am free of all prejudice. I hate everyone equally. '

Sometimes, I think Fields called it right.

Maybe a better way to approach the topic would be to consider this angle on it: Between groups of young people who prefer either sacred music or praise and worship style music, which group has greater longevity and adherence to Catholic faith and practice? It could be that some of those who, for a time, prefer one type of music stop coming to Mass and abandon the faith. What matters is not so much what young people prefer now to attract them; what matters is what fosters longevity and depth in practicing the faith.

Church of the Nativity (of "Rebuilt" fame) in Baltimore packs people in and has just about the most contemporary style of worship and music barely justifiable under the strict letter of the rubrics for Mass, but I'm told the parish has a very large turnover rate because although they attract for a while, they don't succeed as much with retention. People tire of the auditorium-style praise band rock concert at Mass which, frankly, they can get in better quality in secular venues. To go to Nativity on any given Sunday or to watch a stream of their Mass, you might think the parish provides the answer to declining Mass attendance nationwide. But what does a deeper or more extended analysis reveal?

What people want matters. But what sustains and promotes growth in faith also matters.

And at least in certain areas, nascent traditionalist groups grow and then wither as well.

...and this, like all other Christian movements, tends to be in proportion to the degree they practice the theological virtues and the corporal and spiritual works of mercy. There's a reason the Oxford Movement had a profound effect on the English-speaking world, and it sure wasn't polemics or mere tracts!

Was there a happy ending?
Did he teach it to them?
Were they grateful?

It would seem to me that any movement such as CMAA and other "reform' groups would push a goodly portion of efforts,time and money into teaching the young. However, CMAA seems pre-occupied with other tasks, though good in and of their own right. However, for the movement to make the most change, it would be to invest persons with the energy and formation to work in schools, youth facilities,etc. That is an investment in the present and the future. We have a structure already in hand: the Catholic school.
As one who does this (teach the young), the fruits are somewhat quickly apparent. And the benefits long term go deep into the soil of the ground of Holy Mother Church. In my opinion, any reform group that does not do this is just playing a shallow game.
You want change...invest in the young. Pueri Cantores does this. In my humble opinion, CMAA only makes a nod to it but is not really committed. In my last years of doing this work, I have no time for groups that do not do it. I prefer to teach my students so that they are formed well and the reform take hold. The sign in my classroom says it well: " Dress well, learn your Latin, say your prayers and do good wherever you go."

I wouldn't rely on the Catholic school system. It is being dismantled because it is not "economically feasible." Catholic schools may continue to exist in urban areas, but only because they provide an alternative to badly run public schools. Suburban Catholic schools are on life support.

Archbishop SAmple's homily at the Shrine of the Immaculate Conception wherein he has a lot to say about young people's attraction to the TLM:
http://wdtprs.com/blog/2018/05/archbp-samples-good-sermon-at-the-national-shrine/

I've seen a lot of young people at EF Masses, but they're mostly caucasian. I wonder if the EF will be able to attract young Hispanics?

Tribalism doesn't need hard work to promote it. Even when we all worshiped in Latin, there were Irish/Italian/German churches with different worship styles.
When we moved into south London (UK) in 1981 my wife found the parish ladies fairly unwelcoming. She lived about two miles north of there until she went to University, but with her convent and Oxford education she seemed alien to them. After a few months, when they were showing signs of thawing, one of them discovered her name was Dympna Connolly and exclaimed 'Oh, you are one of us after all!'

Connolly (her name not mine) and Dympna are both characteristicly Irish. An anglicization of Damhnait ní Conghaile.

True, and I have seen it in practice.

And, let us not think for a moment that there isn't a widespread reverse snobbery amongst many OF people (particularly priests!) who view the EF with contempt and worse. There is enough nuanced snobbery of many varieties for everyone to have his and her share, and many are those of all persuasions who partake of that share. When it comes to snobbery or contempt it is most often a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

I think a good compromise solution is to let young adults and teens have non-liturgical praise and worship nights with contemporary music on Friday evenings or some other night during the week, if they are into that sort of thing. Don't bring that music into the Mass because it doesn't belong at Mass. But if the music serves a devotional purpose outside of Mass, that can be encouraged with no harm done and might even serve to keep them coming to the parish and interested in being part of the faith community. As CharlesW said above, when they grow out of the P&W phase, hopefully the parish's celebrations of Mass and catechetical programs will be what they will grow into. The P&W non-liturgical evening services can show that the parish and the Church aren't opposed to what some young people like but, in fact, are genuinely interested in serving them where they are at and helping them grow in faith. Kind of like how many parishes have Vacation Bible School during the summer for little kids, but nobody would say that VBS ought to be incorporated into Mass nor that VBS models adult catechesis. VBS and P&W are like milk before solid food.

My experience was and is that young people often don't know what they want.

Give the man his prize!

Listen to "In Christ Alone" by Getty and Townend. Tons of covers and different arrangements have been recorded. I think it's just about the best contemporary P&W song that's been composed. Besides the more common soft-pop arrangements there is a very tasteful SATB arrangement that I have heard used effectively as a second Communion song at Mass sung by choir with assembly. The theology of the song's lyrics is more sophisticated and doctrinally sound than many recent GIA, OCP and WLP songs.

Interestingly, the song was dropped from the Presbyterian hymnal because the composers refused to go along with a proposed liberalizing change in lyrics from "the wrath of God was satisfied" to "the love of God was magnified."

Not all P&W music is garbage, but some of it is.

The P&W songs I can't stand are those that repeat the same phrase over and over and over ad nauseam: "Your Grace is Enough" or "How Great Is Our God" are examples. Those songs are terribly boring to me, but some young people really like them.

Gamba,

I'm torn between offering you a long-distance pint of lager and breaking your sword.

This part is brilliant:

It seems trying to fit everything into the Sunday morning 45 minutes has been disastrous

The logical next step is to expand the influence of music in our lives, and guarantee that Mass isn't the only occasion in which the faithful encounter the faith.

Then you turn the corner from the sublime to the ridiculous:

faith is born that is then nourished in Bible classes, evangelization, religious education, Matt Maher singalongs, Taize prayer, Charismatic prayer services, gospel music concerts, solemn Vespers and benediction with lengthy and learned sermon, and however else the faith awakened by reverent celebration of Mass finds communal and vernacular expression.

"Bible classes" -- nothing wrong with studying Holy Writ, but if I asked a show of hands of those whose "Bible classes" had been occasions of weakening the faith, ......

"Evangelization" --- but that's precisely what Mass is because it is the worship of God.

"Religious education" -- frequently taught by people who are certified by those who hate the faith.

"Matt Maher singalongs" -- no idea who Matt Maher is, but the whole concept of a singalong strikes me as infantile, when the purpose of the exercise is to help the person mature in his faith.

"Taize prayer"-- mesmerizing, but not, for that reason valuable formation in the Catholic faith.

"Charismatic prayer services"-- I sense a trend in your suggestions. "Charismatic Catholic" is an oxymoron. (Yes, I'll defend this if need be).

"Gospel music concerts" -- Yes, I'm definitely sensing a trend.

"Solemn Vespers and Benediction" -- this is, at least, the public prayer of the Church, and swerves back in the direction of the aforementioned proffering of ale.

"lengthy and learned sermons" -- not all lengthy sermons are learned, and not all learned sermons are lengthy. Nevertheless, this sounds positively Protestant.

Jackson,

I amend my statement.

"Charismatic Catholic", as that term is usually understood today, is an oxymoron.

Sword sharpened through a confrontation; thank you, MJO.

If I could try to clean up my statement:

My list of things that some (young and old) people find nourishing/saw one time at Steubenville/had a positive experience with at the March for Life or X pilgrimage in Europe or whatever: they’re not all where I would go for edification, but other people might. My point is that for them to accomplish anything, they belong outside of Mass, not imported piecemeal, discrediting both.

Evangelization IS the Mass, for those who wander in off the street, but also more than Mass: meeting curious neighbors for coffee, building a house after a tragedy, caring for the needy in Calcutta, etc.

Heterodox and damaging religious ed or Bible studies are rather hampered by a good Mass; the full Corpus Christi sequence (if it appears) cannot coexist with a flawed teaching about the Eucharist...

If one gets the Mass right, and hires staff who don’t see it as their vehicle for their ends, but the source of the faith that drives everything else they do, I think a parish will be in a better place than one that has an ongoing battle about how to cram in a children’s liturgy of the word, a welcoming party for visitors, contemporary youth band, senior folk group, the banner guild, the dance team, 969374 EMHCs, and everything else.

THEN the chips can fall where they will. Instead of a Balkanized parish, where 3/4 of the parish hates 3/4 of the weekend masses and will attend them only under duress, there can be a community unified by one consistent liturgy, which then exercises and expresses its faith outside of Mass in ways that are meaningful to them, but may not be to others.

Not everyone wants to go to Vespers, or to adoration, or to a visiting Franciscan’s preaching, or to concerts of religious music, whether contemporary or classical. But, with the discernment instilled by participation at reverent, obedient Masses, if my high school students want to go to a charismatic retreat, I don’t dissuade them. They know what the rubrics say, and what the role of the chants of the Mass are, and why whatever they witness there won’t be coming back to our chapel. But if they come back refreshed, with a greater devotion to Jesus and Mary, and a deeper desire to read the Word of God and spend time in prayer, I’m not going to complain.

they belong outside of Mass, not imported piecemeal, discrediting both.

Ok. Get the man an ale.