Are Multiple Ministerial Roles Permitted At Same Mass?

guitarista

Hello, I am new to Musica Sacra,
I have some questions about what I perceive to be some "strange" happenings in this choir I joined within the past year, and I was hoping to get some feedback. This is a small choir (i.e.,4-7 members) in a small parish, and the Music Ministry has been in quite a state of upheaval for the past 2 yrs. In fact, many of the English-speaking parishioners have left the parish because of poor choices a previous pastor made with regard to hymnals, music, etc.... There is no Music Director, no Choir Director, and the individuals with the greatest amount of musical training are the organist and me. I have been a liturgical music minister since the age of 9, play 3 instruments, have had formal vocal instruction, and have served in 7 separate parishes and 2 Catholic schools over the course of my lifetime. I have always been taught that when a Music Minister is serving in the Ministry of Music, that minister may not also perform another lay ministerial function during the same Mass.

On Palm Sun, as this small choir I was singing with was about to begin singing the Offertory Hymn, a woman came running up to the choir loft, and stated, "I am here to help you." I told her that I did not think it was "a good idea" since I had never before met her, she had not practiced the Palm Sun hymns with us, and it was the middle of Mass. However, another choir member then motioned her over, invited her to sit down, and the woman began singing the Offertory hymn with us, followed by the Communion hymn. Just before the Recessional, however, the woman very abruptly got up from her seat, and went running back down the stairs. When I asked what was going on, I was told, "Oh, she is the lector! She needs to get back downstairs so she can process out with Fr. and Deacon." To this I replied, "Ministers of the Word are generally not permitted to serve as Ministers of Music during the same Mass. Why can't she join the choir on a Sun when she is not lectoring?"

Although I have been singing with this choir for over 1 year, and have never before met this woman, here is the response I received, "You came from XXX parish. Our parish is different! You just need to relax! We do whatever we want here, and she can come up and join the choir whenever she gets a break from her lector duties." I responded that I thought there are rules from the USCCB which state that ecclesial lay ministers cannot perform more than 1 ministerial function during the same Mass. The choir member with whom I was speaking replied, "I've never heard of such a rule, but if you can find something in writing, I'd like to see it. But we don't have to follow 'rules' written by bishops. We do what works for us!"

Thus far, I have only been able to find the following references:
Chapter 1, III B. 28 of Sacrosanctum Concilium states "In liturgical celebrations each person, minister or layman, who has an office to perform, should do all of, but only, those parts which pertain to his office by the nature of the rite and the principles of liturgy."
Note: There is one exception to this rule: Chapter 3, IV, para 110 (GIRM) states, "If only one minister is present at a Mass with a congregation, that minister may exercise several different duties."
Chapter 3, III, para. 99 of the General Instruction of the Roman Missal states "The lector is instituted to proclaim the readings from Sacred Scripture, with the exception of the Gospel. He may also announce the intentions for the Universal Prayer and, in the absence of a psalmist, recite the Psalm between the readings. In the celebration of the Eucharist, the lector has his own proper function (cf. nos. 194-198), which he himself must carry out."

I suppose I could go to the pastor, but he is brand new, he is incredibly busy, and English is not his first language, so communication can be challenging. Moreover, I hate to burden him with what seems like such a small issue, although the issue definitely does not feel "small" to me. The entire choir was disrupted, we nearly missed our cue to sing the Memorial Acclamation because everyone was talking with the lector, and this other choir member who has very little musical training but many control issues, is definitely attempting to challenge the information I've offered her. I have just been asked to sit on the Parish Music Committee, and I have been asked to help revive the Parish's Music Ministry, so I do have a legitimate interest here, other than just being a choir member. Any thoughts on how to deal with this situation or references to Church teaching would be most appreciated!

RevAMG

At a typical Mass with the people, each minister functions in that ministry alone, unless there is a lack of ministers. For example, if at a Mass with the people when only one minister is present, that minister may exercise several different functions.

Paragraph 99 of the GIRM that you quote is about instituted lectors of which there are few—most instituted lectors are seminarians on their way towards ordination. A lay reader is governed by para. 101 of the GIRM.

If I were the pastor in the situation you relate, and the reader is needed to sing, I would have the reader remain in/near the sanctuary until after the reading(s) and then have him/her move to the choir and stay there. But this would only be if that person was needed in the choir.

Viola

Quite apart from anything else, surely you can't have people just turning up to sing, having had no practice. This reflects a very poor view of church music, the 'anything will do' attitude. No one should sing at Mass with the choir unless they practise with the choir.

bhcordova

Unfortunately, I've seen this happen in other parishes. Usually, it is a choir member leaving the choir to become an Extraordinary Minister, or a lector doing the same, or a lector becoming an usher, or an usher coming up to be an Extraordinary Minister. I've even been asked when coming to Mass to either sing with the choir or to read (I'm both a lector and a member of one of the choirs at my parish), but never both at the same time.

janetgorbitz

Hi Guitarista,

I know that the rule of only acting in one ministerial function during a liturgy has been a rule at several of the parishes I have attended over the years - but not all. In fact, I have often had choir members who also serve as extraordinary ministers of Holy Eucharist or lectors. I have asked that they try to be scheduled for their time to serve in those function when it is not a Mass when our choir is singing. However, I have not always been successful.

My bigger concern would be the fact that the woman in question was heretofore unknown to you and had not attended any choir rehearsal. (I must say that I don't have that problem since we sing primarily chant with only a few hymns and it isn't something most people can do without attending rehearsals).

I would say you should be well within your rights to ask that she come to choir rehearsals before being allowed to sing with the choir at Mass. Perhaps you can get her contact information and invite her... even if you had a short conversation with her privately following Mass and got some sense of her ability, etc. it would be helpful, I think. It may well be that she is such a talented singer that she will be an asset to your choir even if she is unable to make all rehearsals and you may want to make an exception in her case... but I'm guessing it would be good at least if she would come to join you and your choir at your pre-Mass warmup so that she will know all the details of the music plan...

Sometimes things are a bit different in small parishes where people have to take on various functions in order to make things work... maybe this is one of those situations?

a_f_hawkins

Sometimes one has to do whatever is neccessary. I have acted as lector, when it became apparent to me, sitting in the pews, that no assigned reader had turned up. And also taken on the role of server, on a different occasion, when none had turned up and I was reader. On both occasions the celebrant was new to the (large) parish, and did not know to whom he should turn for assistance.
But why does a reader need to join the recession?

Incardination

the Music Ministry has been in quite a state of upheaval for the past 2 yrs. In fact, many of the English-speaking parishioners have left the parish because of poor choices a previous pastor made with regard to hymnals, music, etc.

Small wonder, given the cavalier attitude of

Our parish is different! You just need to relax! We do whatever we want here...

Welcome to the forum, and best of luck in your current situation.

a_f_hawkins

In the small parish where I now live, when I asked the organist how I would join the choir, she said 'you walk up the stairs to the loft and sit down with the others'.

Carol

Welcome to the forum. I can see why you were concerned, and I agree. I reread your post to see if you are serving as the head/director of the choir or is the organist the leader? If you do not have any official capacity as yet, I would tread lightly. You will be able to effect more change for the good if you do it carefully.

We occasionally have had a choir member who also serves as a lector at other Masses during the year, read one of the 7 Old Testament readings at the Easter Vigil in my parish. In this parish, lectors always sit in the congregation and approach the altar, reverence the altar with a bow, and then read the scripture from the ambo. At the conclusion of their reading, they reverence the altar and return to their seat. The choir member who did the reading is an excellent reader and was able to accomplish both roles without calling attention to himself.

janetgorbitz

From Carol:..." I reread your post to see if you are serving as the head/director of the choir or is the organist the leader? If you do not have any official capacity as yet, I would tread lightly. You will be able to effect more change for the good if you do it carefully."

I was assuming you are the choir director... I agree with Carol if that is not the case... It does sound like no one else objected (organist or other choir members)?

CCooze

But why does a reader need to join the recession?

That's a very good question.

Richard R.

At a very small mission parish in rural Nevada, I once saw a celebrating priest leave the sanctuary at the end of Mass to play an organ postlude. Does that qualify?

melofluent

I'm relieved Carol brought the salient point of leadership to the fore.
Guitarista, if you are operating ipso facto as this group's leader, please consider what actions, behaviors, and if necessary, words needing utterance would mitigate situations such as this before resorting to your local customs and general prescriptions, legal or otherwise.
As Richard intimates, the possibility for drama in such circumstances can result in a comedy of errors. The last thing a leader should "do," is further contribute to either or both of drama and comedy at liturgy. YMMV.

CharlesW

Stuff happens. A great young man asked me to be his confirmation sponsor. Unfortunately, I was playing the organ and conducting the choir. I had to leave the console in the hands of an associate, go downstairs, go up with him to the altar, and put my hand on his shoulder while he was being confirmed. Then I returned to the loft. I had "ecclesiastical" approval and never gave it a second thought. Sometimes you have to wear more than one hat.

Carol

That was surely a unique situation. IMHO that young man chose a very fitting sponsor, Charles.

chonak

Hi, and welcome to the forum.

You're on the right track about what those instructions say. The point from Sacrosanctum Concilium is also carried over into the GIRM at n. 91 of that document. But be aware that there are distinctions among the instructions in the GIRM, expressed by the choice of words. Some things "may" be done, some things "should" be done, and some things simply are to be done. That is, some of the details in the GIRM are recommendations, not commands, and can be treated differently if there is a good enough reason. In this case, we're talking about an instruction expressed as what "should" be done. There's room for a judgment call by the pastor. So I think you wouldn't be in a position to persuade the pastor that this kind of double role is totally excluded.

One of the churches where I work sounds similar to yours: the choir is small, and when a choir member serves as a lector, the choir would be hampered if the member were not permitted to carry out two functions.

On the other hand, letting someone who has not attended rehearsals step in and sing along is a risky measure. It may help or it may be a hindrance. At only 4-7 people, and with no director, the choir is probably desperate to get any help it can.

StimsonInRehab

"Stuff" indeed does happen.

This past Palm Sunday I was choir director for two choirs, ersatz MC, reception cook, altar server trainer, candle lighter, choir transportation manager (drove 5 hours total that Sunday) Chronista/Turba for the Passion, and (since Father apparently didn't want to sing the Passion so I utilized laymen) probably liturgical scapegoat in the eyes of many. [And if anyone wants to harangue me for doing so, PM me, I'd rather not delve into that here.]

And now my choir wants me to start training altar boys.

Yeah, I'm sick and burnt out of being up to my ears in stuff. Especially after finding out I'm gainfully unemployed again today.

bhcordova

Ouch!

CharlesW

Not good at all. Prayers for you.

Incardination

Definitely, Stim - so sorry to hear that. Prayers.

Carol

My prayers as well. I love that role: "liturgical scapegoat!" I bet most of us have assumed that one at one time or another.

eft94530

choir transportation manager

Uhhh .. that is "choir car czar".
From eight syllables to three syllables.
Now that part of your life is easier and more powerful !

Prayers for the rest of the items on your list.

CHGiffen

Sad news, Stimson ... prayers for you.

NihilNominis

Hey, CharlesW, same thing just happened to me!

I got a proxy for downstairs, however, and assured my sponsored candidate of my prayerful presence with him by executing a dramatic transposition in my improvisation at the moment of his confirmation.

CharlesW

When you think about it, being asked to sponsor a young person is a genuine honor. It is a big deal to those young folks and I wouldn't turn anyone down.

guitarista

Thank you all very much for the helpful clarification on the Church's norms, and the guidance on the issue of having no Choir director!

I did some additional research. In the Diocese in which I serve, there is also a written directive from the Office of Divine Worship which states, "Those ministers who serve in more than one ministry in the parish (e.g., ExtraordinaryMinister, lector, cantor, etc.) should perform only one ministry during the same liturgy." I then contacted the priest in charge of our Office of Divine Worship, who replied that the norms are clear and universal....only one ministerial role should be performed during one Mass. However, he also agreed that when there is "a serious need," as Rev AMG, Chonak and many of you suggested, there may be room for a pastoral exception.

I conveyed this to the rest of the choir members and the Music Committee members, although I don't believe it was well-received. I think they have been operating this way for many years while the parish has had numerous pastors and parish administrators come and go, often serving for as little as 4 mos-1 yr. To be told there are guidelines the Bishop has established which should be respected, and to be told that we should be asking the new pastor for an exception... at this late date, just doesn't sit well with most of them.

The larger issue, as so many of you helped me to see, is that there is no Choir Director or Music Director. Thus, we have 2-4 strong personalities vying for control. In particular, we have 2 elderly women, both of whom have been in the choir for many, many years, but neither of whom appear to have sufficient musical training to lead. However, both would like to believe they do; hence, both women are attempting to make decisions for the entire group! While the organist appears to possess sufficient musical training and has attempted to provide some leadership, the reality, as he has acknowledged, is that he cannot conduct from the organ. Also, there have been many questions from the members regarding his choice of music, as well as his choral practice techniques. While I possess sufficient musical training and have taken some one-on-one choral directing lessons with a professor at a local college, I am much younger than these ladies, and have been serving in the parish for a little better than 1 year. There is "a pecking order" in many choirs, particularly among women. I am "the newbie" and the "outsider" regardless of my musical training, and probably, also because of my musical training.

Absent the appointment of an official director, I suspect that eventually, the choir will likely cease to exist. While I have attempted to provide assistance and help where I can, sometimes the better part of valor is to acknowledge that too much help is needed! I think the best I can do right now is to discuss my concerns with the new pastor.

Thanks again; this has been very helpful! A blessed Holy Week-Guitarista

CHGiffen

I think the best I can do right now is to discuss my concerns with the new pastor.

Indeed.

Carol

Guitarista, when you discuss your concerns with the new pastor, you will need to do so carefully. Briefly summarize the experience and education that you have and emphasize your desire to help in any way you can, especially if you are willing to act as a volunteer. I think it is important for you to acknowledge and express respect for the older ladies who have devoted so much time to the choir over many years.

In my area a good organist is hard to come by, so a wise pastor who has a good organist is not going to want to upset him/her. If you can form a friendship with the organist so much the better. Be patient and diplomatic. Decide what is the most important area needing change. Don't bite off too many topics in one conversation. May God Bless your efforts.

chonak

Decide what is the most important area needing change.

This is a good point. There are probably several areas in which the choir's work can be helped and improved.

PaxMelodious

If a parish is so small that the choir only has 4-7 members, then I would expect that some doubling up would be necessary, sometimes on the same day even.

Also, I notice that you didn't mention how well or otherwise the woman sang: was she a genuine help to the choir, or a hindrance? Maybe she's a professional singer and one of the others had asked her to help out on this occasion because you were doing something challenging? Since you're not officially the leader, then you won't necessarily know about ring-ins until they arrive. Maybe she has a pastoral situation which means she can only attend rarely (eg house-bound family member).

IMHO it's safer to give people the benefit of the doubt, and only try to change things if they really are causing a problem. Quoting from documents is rarely an effective way to change people's hearts and minds.

guitarista

I appreciate your input, Pax Melodius, and Carol. To address some of the possibilities you're so correctly thinking about:

a) Yes, the lector coming up to the choir loft was definitely a distraction and a disruption. The choir members stand and sit in a very tiny space. We have only 2 microphones, and very little room in which to sit, stand, walk or move. Four choir members had to physically move (i.e., walk to another place in the choir loft) in order to allow this woman into a seat. They had to move again in order to allow her to move back out of the seat. This is difficult when we are trying to locate page numbers and preparing to sing in a matter of seconds. Half of the choir members nearly missed their cue to sing the Memorial Acclamation because they were talking to the lector, asking what she was doing there.

Additionally, the lector did not know the Offertory hymn. The hymn was brand new, and the lector has never, ever practiced with us. No, the lector is not a professional singer, but from what I could hear, she has a good voice. She is definitely someone the choir should be attempting to recruit! That's not the issue.

b) At this time, because there is no director, the choir is supposed to be "a group venture." This has been discussed and agreed upon amongst the choir members and the organist. However, as we all know, human nature and group dynamics do not always result in a harmonious, group venture. Despite the "group venture" premise, a unilateral decision was made by one of the older women (who has very little musical training but believes she should be appointed as "choir director") to invite the lector up to sing with the choir. She did not ask or inform the other choir members, so everyone else was surprised to see the lector, too.

c) Yes, I have tried to be incredibly respectful to both women who would like to be appointed as "Choir Director." Unfortunately, respectful behavior does not always work both ways or curb petty behavior from occurring among Music Ministers, particularly when they perceive that someone "new" has entered the picture who is actually well-trained.

d) I have repeatedly been asked by these folks to become more and more involved in the Parish Music Ministry. I served as a cantor and occasionally played classical guitar. Then, I was asked to help the choir, in addition to the cantoring duties. Most recently, there has been an insistence that I serve on this Music Committee, which is supposed to consist of liturgical music ministers with equally empowered voices. All of the members of the Music Committee (there are 5 of us) also belong to the choir, including the organist and both women who would like to be appointed "Choir Director." So, yes, being on the Music Committee also confers a de facto leadership responsibility, whether I like it or not, in both the choir and in the Music Ministry, in general.

IMHO, the problems can be summarized in 2 points:
1) If we are going to call ourselves "Roman Catholic," we absolutely have an obligation to follow the liturgical teachings and musical worship guidelines of the Church, and in particular, the norms of our local Bishop. That does not mean we cannot request exceptions to norms, particularly in a small parish like this, but at a minimum, the pastor should be consulted. We can't all just do as we please.

2) There are some control and power struggles within the group. Absent a clearly appointed leader in the choir, having one choir member make sudden, unilateral decisions for everyone else solely on the basis of her "longevity" is definitely problematic. BTW, this is not the first unilateral decision she has made, and I am not the only choir member who feels this way. Admittedly, I don't always keep my mouth shut while she instructs the choir members on "the proper tempo," but does not understand time signatures, metronome markings, or even how to distinguish and discriminate from among notes with different time values. When there is no ability to honor the group premise venture or at least listen to other choir members' and/or the organist's suggestions, it becomes problematic for the entire group.

Thanks again for all of your thoughts & inputs. It is clear to me that the pastor needs to be made aware of both issues. I have found him to be very warm, welcoming, and caring, but I have no illusion that these issues will be easy for him to resolve.

Also, it just may be time to acknowledge that I have helped as much as I can. Music Ministry should be about serving the needs of the congregation and also, ministering to each other. Ideally, it should be fun! When it is about distractions and disagreements, we can no longer minister effectively to others.

Carol

Guitarista, your best course may be to hold your tongue, if you can, and wait for this problem to come to a head, which it probably will if others feel as you do. If you cannot do that because it is all too distracting for you, I hope you can continue to be involved as a cantor at other Masses as you had been. I have been at the same parish for 50+ years and have been involved in the music there to a greater or less extent most of that time. The times where I was less involved were usually because of problems such as you are experiencing. I always chose not to "burn any bridges" because I feel that I do have a calling as a church musician and I didn't want to cut myself off. I didn't lie about my reasons, but I did not necessarily give ALL the reasons I was cutting back. I also felt strongly that it was more important to stick with my parish, rather than hop around. I have observed that shopping around can lead to a falling away from the Church, completely. I don't think you mean it should be fun, I really think you mean it should be fulfilling for you and enhance your own sense of worship.

I will continue to pray for you that you will discern what is the true course of action for this situation.

noel jones, aago

Ten Strategies of Dealing with Difficult People

guitarista

Carol, Thank you so much for the prayers! This is a great article, too. Thanks, Noel!

Carol

I thought that was a wonderful article! I found many ideas in it to be practical. On a different note, no pun intended, I was blessed to sing and to hear my adult son sing at Tennebrae this morning. My son sounded as if he had been singing chant all his life. He sang the middle Lamentation (which he taught himself from Youtube) and I had to close my eyes, as I was overcome with motherly pride and joy!

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