A fine excuse for a liturgist you have! It would be nice if contemporary 'liturgists' knew something about liturgy. The introit is most definitely not outside the mass! It is the beginning of the mass. What's outside the mass here is the 'greeting', which is not only outside the mass but is a tasteless insertion into the mass and an irritant to anyone whose mind is attempting to get into the flow of what's actually the mass. It has been stressed on this forum many times that the Propers are an integral part of the mass - they are not 'add-ons'.

The correct order of mass is Introit, Trinitarian Invocation, Penitential Rite, etc.
If a 'greeting' is something up with which you have to put, it should come before the Introit. Your excuse for a 'liturgist' is wrong!

It's in GIRM 47, Roman Missal page 30: Entrance song and procession is the begining of Mass. and GIRM 46 'the Entrance, the Greeting .... Collect' are the Introductory Rites.
And GIRM 90, Roman Missal page 39: Kissing the altar is the end of Mass.

MJO, worry not, there is a choice of greetings "The grace of Our Lord ..." or "Grace and peace ..." or "The Lord be with you". After that someone may "very briefly introduce the faithful to the Mass of the day", no permission for folksiness.

Yes, yes. We know that technically (or 'actually') the mass is over at the final 'Thanks be to God'. What I can't understand is why certain persons and types make such a grand to-do about so plainly obvious a fact, as if a hymn and/or voluntary-postlude was utterly irrelevant and its nature a matter of no concern - as if to say that it wouldn't matter if one sang the Marseillaise or played 'Rule Britannia'. This isn't smart, cute, or wise. Nor is it a mark of maturity. What ever is connected with the mass matters greatly and should blend artistically and in mood with the tenor of the day's mass. Any preludes, final hymns, and postludes are a matter of great concern and must needs reflect that they are related organically to the mass that they ornament. We would do far better by stressing this than to give the impression that what is played or sung is of no matter or relevance.

Bravo and ten-thousand kudos!

Teach! Teach! Teach!
Catechise! Catechise! Catechise!
At every opportunity.
Create opportunities!

Does your parish have a weekly newsletter?
A marvelous avenue for musical enlightenment
is a weekly 'Choirmaster's Column' in the parish newsletter.

Catechesis would help that problem, too!
If your ACITP (average Catholic in the pews) is as you describe him and her, it is precisely because he and she have been created that way by 'the Church'. It's time we stopped treating the ACTIP as religious idiots. They are intelligent human beings.

Sorry, I'm not intending to be preaching to you. You, I'm sure, don't need it. But we have a problem - a problem which the Church itself has created.

My experience is that if you give people credit, they will rise to expectations.

Teach! Teach! Teach!
Etc., etc., etc.!

Is this "liturgist" the pastor, parochial vicar, or deacon?

If not, why is his opinion that important?

As I am not formally trained in liturgy or sacred music, I make these points only by way of observation:

- For those who follow the four hymn sandwich, if you want the people to sing, then give them something that is worth singing! At my parish, the only people who leave early before the closing hymn and before the clergy and altar servers are those who have booths to staff in the narthex or in the piazza (between the church proper and the parish school) and those in charge of coffee hour, usually in the courtyard - about a third to a half are still there when the organist quits the postlude, and usually the only ones who arrive late are families with small children. The faithful sing with gusto, with no need for a cantor to "bring them in" - at the two principal Masses, we don't have them at all. (For reference purposes, I am at a Personal Ordinariate of the Chair of St. Peter parish.) Though there may be some who leave after Holy Communion, I have not seen noticeable amounts, let alone the great throngs of the same you see in other parishes.

- On that note, you will not find perpetual notices in the bulletin asking people to sing or reminding them to stay for the whole Mass - it had been years since I have seen the latter in the bulletin, and I do not recall seeing the former in the whole of eleven years I have been at this parish.

- Do not use announcement time to ramble on aimlessly - our current pastor only relates key items, not the whole bulletin, nor does he do it often. Compare that to a Catholic student center I used to attend over a decade ago, where skits were often used to make announcements.

it is precisely because he and she have been created that way by 'the Church'

We'll disagree, pleasantly.

In my first church job, I was told by the priests (yes, there were THREE at that parish....long ago far away....) that generally speaking, 1/3 of the parish are attentive, active, (etc.); another third are lumps, usually present only for Christmas and Easter; and the last third vote "present!"; they show up and give money, but little or nothing else.

That 33/33/33 thing was generally known by the priests of the Archdiocese, and--no surprise--the same pattern held at the next two parishes in which I worked.

(For obvious reasons, that formula did not hold for the two EF congregations I served.)

I would suggest that your particular situation is far more like the EF groups than the typical parish, so your experience is not "ordinary."

The C&E attendee percentage is relatively easy to discern provided that there are not confounding factors (e.g., a church on a university campus where students make up a large percentage of the population and are often gone for C and E.)

I'm less inclined to make judgments about attentiveness and activity, except in extreme cases. I remember that when I was a graduate student, there was a faculty member (quite a famous catholic priest, in fact, but I'll let him remain anonymous) who would appear to be asleep for most of every visiting lecture, only to ask one of the more penetrating and pertinent questions once the lecture was complete.