CCCB releases details on new Canadian national hymnal
  • This is a few weeks old, but I haven't seen it posted here.

    The Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops has released their plan for the new national hymnal, which I believe all (major?) churches in Canada are forced to buy (if not use)

    The hymn listing can be found here:

    This is supposedly what will be included:

    Mass texts as per the 2011 Roman Missal
    10 Mass Settings
    Musical settings of the NRSV Psalms matching the Lectionary: Sundays and Solemnities (the only Psalm settings approved for use in Canada)
    Settings for Morning Prayer
    Settings for Evening Prayer
    Over 400 Hymns from many genres appealing to a variety of liturgical music ministries, talent and instruments:
    Covering all the Seasons of the Liturgical Year
    Additional Communion hymns
    For Funerals
    For Weddings
    For Ritual Masses
    For Eucharistic Adoration
    Favorite hymns retained with some returning from CBW II
    Introduction of fresh texts with some familiar tunes
    Comprehensive indexing to assist with appropriate music selections
    Donation acknowledgement inserts for donor purchases


    To me, at least, some of the choices seem positively perplexing.
    Thanked by 1canadash
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,276
    I don't think any church is "forced" to buy or use. The Cathedral in Toronto just put together their own; I would be surprised if they purchase another hymnal.

    I'm disappointed that they didn't include some older hymns people loved. "Sweet Sacrament" comes to mind.

    The other exclusion is more Mass settings from the Kyriale. In a country as multicultural as Canada (at least my parish anyway) using a Latin Ordinary is so inclusive. I noticed, sadly, that Healey Willan's "Missa de Sancta Maria Magdalena" which has been edited for the new translation was omitted.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • In the Hamilton Diocese, as I would understand it, the Bishop is directing all parishes to purchase it.

    Canadash: On your point about the Willan: My conductor and my previous conductor both tried English adaptations of it and came to the conclusion that "it's just not worth it".

    I hope they get their act together and use some actual texts rather than heavily altered stuff.
    Thanked by 1canadash
  • Andrew Malton
    Posts: 665
    I also understand that in Hamilton diocese we are expected to all have the new book in the pews, theoretically by Advent 2019. The book doesn't actually exist yet, of course: what's published is just the Commission's proposed table of contents.

    Casavant, by "use some actual texts" do you mean use compositions written for the actual (current) texts? Or reverting to the "actual" original lyrics of everything, instead of "alt"? In hymnals, "alt." (meaning lyrics that are changed from their first author's first version) is as old as hymnals, centuries old. The CBW III has some horrible alts (like #565, brr!), but some we must be barely aware of: consider the textual history of "Silent Night" for example.

    Schönbergian, I am also perplexed in a few cases (eg why these Masses?) but this edition does have to exist. It is a fairly cautious revision of CBW III, which is now 25 years old. It is not just a hymnal: it contains lots of proper liturgical material. The CBW III unfortunately was saddled with unapproved texts (including the Grail psalter which was never officially approved for Canada) and this new book will use only actual liturgical texts where appropriate.

    I want to not lose the CBW III psalter -- the new psalm texts are OK (I prefer them to the Grail) but the newer music is last night 's half drunk can of ginger ale.
    Thanked by 1canadash
  • No, I mean using unaltered texts with original tunes. The amount of botching of the text is awful. If you get a chance, you should try and get your hands on one of the St. Michael's Cathedral Hymnals, With Angels and Archangels. All texts are original and contains all verses.
    Thanked by 1canadash
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,276
    I heard that St. Thomas the Apostle Parish has the "With Angels and Archangels." How did they manage this? Any clues as to how we could look into it?
  • Please feel free to contact St. Michael's Choir School. or

    I don't think the harmony edition is ready. It will be ready I believe by the end of the year.
    Thanked by 1canadash
  • eft94530eft94530
    Posts: 1,443
    Is there a General Instruction of the Roman Missal
    that includes "Adaptations for the Dioceses of Canada"
    with an equivalent of USA Option Four ?

    When would the hymns be used?
  • Andrew Malton
    Posts: 665
    * GIRM Canadian adaptations, yes, of course. It says "another chant that is suited to the sacred action, the day, or the time of year, and whose text has been approved by the Conference of Bishops of Canada.". A reasonable construct of which means "which is in a relevant section of the CBW".
    * Hymns: as in the GIRM, for entrance, offertory, communion. And as customarily, for after the final blessing.

    Also, as mentioned, the CBW through three editions soon to be four, and over nearly 50 years, has always contained a compete responsorial psalter, a few Mass settings, and other liturgical texts.
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,276
    Andrew, where did you see the settings of the psalms?
    Pity. There were some gems in the CBW III and the CBW II contained quite a few Gelineau settings.
  • Andrew Malton
    Posts: 665
    @canadash, surely they will be exactly those published with this Jan 2017 announcement complete with its spelling mistake.
    Thanked by 1canadash
  • The settings used at St. Michael's Cathedral Basilica are those from a collection called "New Cathedral Gradual" (it may have been mentioned here before) which is a collection of Stephen Somerville's and Thomas Barrett Armstrong's psalms which were adapted to the new texts. Where needed, psalm tone chant refrains are used. The psalms are miles better than the CBW psalms, although less melodic.

    Of course, Armstrong's large choral psalms weren't included, but the refrains along with simple psalm tones were.

    Having looked at the collection at the link which Andrew Malton posted above me, I'm not happy, and the NCG psalms are certainly going to be used wherever I am.
    Thanked by 1canadash
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 7,094
    About older psalm settings: the line in the GIRM about approved psalms can be interpreted as "ever approved", so that settings approved in previous editions would remain usable, unless there is a specific prohibition.
    Thanked by 2canadash CHGiffen
  • Andrew Malton
    Posts: 665
    About older psalm settings: the line in the GIRM (para 61.) is a US adaptation. In Canada we have no such rubric.

    In practice the Grail texts with the CBW III music have been tolerated since the new (NRSV) Lectionary was approved in 2007. After all we were using that Lectionary without recognitio for 15 years before that. Around 2010 the Diocese of Calgary tried to enforce the exclusive use of the newer psalter, but I don't think the attempt lasted very long. (Anyone know better?)

    At any rate I fully expect the new psalter to be "obligatory" in theory.

  • roy2
    Posts: 7
    Andrew: The 2015 CCCB Guidelines for Liturgical Music says this. Not sure the 'legal status' of this document though.
    "The selected Psalm verses and the refrain for each liturgical celebration (New Revised Standard Version) are found in the Lectionary. Settings of the Psalms which use the Grail translation are also permitted for liturgical use in Canada." (p28)
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 7,094
    Is it clear about whether that refers to the 1963 Grail version or the 2010 Revised Grail Psalter?
  • Andrew Malton
    Posts: 665
    The CCCB surely means the Grail in the CBW, which is basically the 1963.

    The legal status of that document is that no one will try to stop you if you use the Grail psalms. But I know places where Grail 2010 psalms are used, and places where Haugen-Haasz paraphrases are used, and no one tries to stop them either.

    The document says of itself that it contains "approved guidelines" , which "may help the Church in Canada.. when celebrating liturgies" . It was written by Msgr Kroetsch under the auspices of the Liturgy Commission, and presumably with this language it is avoiding all appearance of being legislation.
    Thanked by 1roy2