The Dedication of The new Cathedral in Knoxville?
  • kevinfkevinf
    Posts: 1,029
    Anyone seen the program or participating? Inquiring minds would like to know. The building certainly looks good but I am afraid as I always am of liturgy in the south of the US. Having grown up in it, I am fully aware of the mediocrity. Will this be different?
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 9,290
    I am not participating, for reasons stated elsewhere. Some of my people are. I will ask one of them Sunday, but I don't think the programs are available for the dedication or vespers on the day before. The organ (Casavant 71 ranks) is being installed in 3 stages, but they were thinking they would have to use the Allen from the old cathedral for the dedication.
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,532
    Some Facebook posts from reputable sources make it sound as though the Casavant (or some part of it) will be used for the dedication.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 9,290
    Not sure. I talked with the DM a few weeks ago and he didn't think so. But pipes are clearly being installed.
  • kevinfkevinf
    Posts: 1,029
    I know some of it is being used. What I really want to know is the program.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 9,290
    Some of the singers are in my choir. I will ask them about that Sunday.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 9,290
    As I noted in a private message to Kevin, I have the choir worksheets listing the music for the dedication. It is hard copy, so you will need to PM an e-mail address to me. I will scan it and e-mail the PDF to you.

    As I also noted in that PM, some of the music is pretty good, some of it is music I would not do in my setting.
    Thanked by 1CCooze
  • CCoozeCCooze
    Posts: 714
    The music for vespers last night was quite nice - with the odd exception of the choice of Missa Luna for the gospel acclamation (it had a psalm-tone verse - I don't know what usually goes with it, as I'd never sung anything from this setting before), and a jazzy chord-change to the Morley Magnificat.
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 9,290
    Yeah, they are using the Misa Lunatic for the dedication, too. What a piece of garbage.
    Thanked by 1Settefrati93
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 9,290
    I watched a part of it on the diocesan website. It will be replayed on EWTN March 10, I think. The sound quality wasn't good for reasons I don't know. There was too much commentator chatter, as there usually is. However, some of the music selections I didn't want to hear to begin with, so the mindless unnecessary blabbing covered it up. At one point the commentator said, "Bishop Stika is walking down the center aisle." Duh! I would never have known that from watching him walk down the center aisle. LOL. I'm sure their intentions were good.

    I feel sorry for anyone trying to drive there, since lanes are shut down on the interstate for bridge repair.
  • CCoozeCCooze
    Posts: 714
    the reasoning I heard was that that's probably what's most familiar of all the music in the program, and will make it easier on the congregation..?

    Vespers Program

    Prelude:
    Locus Iste - Bruckner
    O Quam gloriosum - Victoria
    In Paradisum - chant
    Ave Verum Corpus - Byrd (which accidentally was performed about a 3rd lower than it was supposed to be)

    Vespers:
    Terribilis est - chant
    Christ is Made the Sure Foundation - WESTMINSTER ABBEY
    Antiphon + verses "The streets of Jerusalem..."
    Antiphon + verses "How safe a dwelling..."
    Antiphon + verses "Through Jesus Christ, may your church..."

    -Epistle: Ephesians 2:19-2, 27
    Responsory: "Your house, O Lord, must always be a holy place."

    Gospel Accl. - Misa Luna
    -Gospel: Matthew 16:13-23

    Te Deum - chant
    Antiphon at Magnificat: "All you who love Jerusalem, Rejoice with her forever."
    Magnificat - Morley (but the word "end" in the Glory Be was changed from a Bb Major chord, to a Bbm7. Why? I don't know...?)

    -Intercessions
    -Lord's Prayer
    -Concluding Prayer
    -Blessing and Dismissal

    Recessional: Prelude and Fugue in E minor - Bach
    Thanked by 2CharlesW CHGiffen
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 9,290
    Sounds like the Vespers may have been better than the dedication. Our congregation has done ICEL chant since 2011, so they wouldn't recognize Misa Luna at all.
  • rich_enough
    Posts: 690
    The video is now on YouTube.

    I was surprised (though maybe I shouldn't have been) that they used a paraphrase for the responsorial psalm, and then the Becker litany of the saints. Somehow I thought (was hoping) that these were no longer allowed.
    Thanked by 2CharlesW CCooze
  • Marc Cerisier
    Posts: 376
    As the chief liturgist of his see, a bishop can approve most anything for use if he wants to.

    I’m happy to not have to deal with paraphrases or that setting I’d the litany in my present situation.

    Marc
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 6,083
    ...can approve...

    I continue to be perplexed -
    By what authority does a bishop (or any one of lesser or higher rank) contradict or supplant ritual forms or content, or anything else that the Church in council or the pope (than which there is no greater authority) has enjoined?
    I understand that they have the power to do this with very little chance of being disciplined for it, but where is the actual authority? There is none.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen chonak
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 9,290
    I was surprised (though maybe I shouldn't have been) that they used a paraphrase for the responsorial psalm, and then the Becker litany of the saints.


    The Becker was, unfortunately, revised for the new missal translation. Like you, I had hoped to see it burned by the dumpster. When asked by those who miss it, I truthfully say the parish doesn't have the money to buy the new setting when we can use the traditional one for free. Granted, I could get it if I really wanted, but I don't.
  • Marc Cerisier
    Posts: 376
    I understand that they have the power to do this with very little chance of being disciplined for it, but where is the actual authority? There is none.


    Does GIRM61 not assign rather broad discretion to the diocesan bishop in the approval of psalms not found in the Lectionary? This would seem to be the actual authority you mention not existing.

    Most parish musicians never work directly with their bishops on anything, but I certainly did as a cathedral and diocesan musician, and if the bishop wants something to be done that requires his permission, it has always been given in my experience.

    MJO, I believe the better question would be should the bishop be allowed to make such changes. I personally don't believe he should be able to, but it was the bishops who requested the adaptations giving them permission to allow other psalms in GIRM61, and the bishops at the Vatican who allowed the adaptation, so it seems they would disagree with me!

    Marc
  • CCoozeCCooze
    Posts: 714
    Thanks for the youtube video. It's nice to be able to skip through some stuff.
    Some of the music was quite nice. Other parts could have been replaced by something nicer, even if the arrangements used were rather... grandiose.
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 6,083
    Marc may well be correct in the instance of the GIRM paragraph that he references. This does not, though, answer for the many ritual abuses that are done in a vacancy of authority, an un-authentic use of power. We all know that if all masses conformed to, or were paradigms of what Vatican II and numerous popes set down as normative for the Church and its worship, we would be living in a very different Church than we do. As it is, in most churches the liturgy is a paradigm of disobedience, suppressed chant and Latin, suppressed musical heritage, and a deliberate contra-diction of what the council ordered - all representing the disobedient, inauthentic, and non-authoritative use of power - disobedience by men who, themselves, will have no truck with disobedience to themselves.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen CCooze
  • Marc Cerisier
    Posts: 376
    Your first sentence makes me chuckle... is it what the GIRM says, or not?

    To the rest of your sentiment, I agree entirely—there is a tremendous richness available within the confines of the rubrics given to us that has too often been minimized, ignored, or outright banned. When I've had the opportunity to experience liturgy, in the ordinary form, that more closely follows the rubrics it's really beautiful.

    Marc
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 9,290
    I agree that there are often what we would call abuses at these Broadway productions dedication events. Sometimes the music directors take the path of least resistance saving time for music that needs more intensive rehearsal. It isn't that the responsible parties always set out to create abuses. I am just glad I am not the one having to deal with them. I'm too old for it.
  • Marc Cerisier
    Posts: 376
    CharlesW,

    Another consideration in available rehearsal time. Once we were able to schedule rehearsals for the installation of the new bishop in Memphis, there was only time for 2 or 3 rehearsals—I have to admit I don't remember how many now. I'm happy to stand by the music that was done (except for 2 pieces that the Bishop asked for by name in the Mass, only one ended up being done—they were additional communion songs). It was a massive undertaking to prepare for such a large liturgy. For fun, I've attached the programs from his installation.

    Marc
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 9,290
    Marc, that is not a bad program at all. Far, far better than many I have seen.
    Thanked by 1Marc Cerisier
  • Marc Cerisier
    Posts: 376
    Thanks. One thing that made this easier to have good music is that it wasn't planned by committee—just by myself and the Bishop's MC, except for the 2nd and 3rd communion songs that were requested by the Bishop specifically.
    Thanked by 1CCooze
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,159
    Out of curiosity, Marc, what was the "performance practice" of the Maher "postlude," and how did it go over at such a featured spot?
  • Marc Cerisier
    Posts: 376
    That was another very specific request from the Bishop as he had heard it after one of the Masses at the recent World Youth Day he attended with his previous diocese. After the recessional, we did the "real" postlude (movement of Mendelssohn symphony), and then I was done, and I had John Angotti do the Maher. He also did the second communion song while the choir received communion. So, as John did it with full band, the performance practice matched the recording. As to how it went over... just like any postlude—something loud that everyone talked over as they walked past the music area to reach the reception. John's band played about 30 min of postlude, and then a local HS band played another 30 min of postlude.

    Marc
    Thanked by 1melofluent
  • ghmus7
    Posts: 972
    The program is very well done, Marc did you do the graphic layout? What software?
    Thanked by 1Marc Cerisier
  • Marc Cerisier
    Posts: 376
    I did. InDesign and Finale.

    Marc