Ordination and Installation of 12th Bishop of Nashville, TN
  • YEE HAW FOLKS or should I have said, HEE HAW, its party time in musak city. Did you watch this event on EWTN? Since I can't say anything charitable about the musak, I'll try to keep my mouth shut.
  • RevAMG
    Posts: 116
    Anyone have a PDF of the worship aid/leaflet or program?
  • kevinfkevinf
    Posts: 1,026
    I am surprised that it was not worse than it was. Knowing the parties involved, it could have been much, much worse. And for the record, do not expect the new Bishop to be a liturgical leader. In fact, I would be surprised if there will be any kind of liturgy office. Its that 80's and 90's saccharine liturgy.
    Thanked by 1Settefrati93
  • I know the area and those dioceses well. Extreme saccharine is precisely correct coupled with liturgical new age progressivism and an extreme ignorance in sacred music and arts. I once long ago work for a particular school in Kentucky and the school's principal taught that literally everything in the bible was a myth. I witnessed first hand, many fine well educated classically trained church musician sabotaged by leaders in diocesan liturgy and music offices. HEE HAWism is very much alive and well there.
  • One thing I like about the Order of Service - no 'readings' : Lesson, Psalm, Lesson, Holy Gospel; all proclaimed. The use of the words 'readings' and 'readers' serves, IMHO, to flatten liturgy.
  • music123
    Posts: 98
    The new Bishop of Nashville was actually my pastor for a year and a half when I started my current position. Though we did not always agree on everything, I do believe that, overall, he has pretty good taste in liturgy, and the selections for the Ordination Mass seem to be reflective of that. I think the people of Nashville are in good hands.

    Ken, I am not sure where you were, but I do not believe what you witnessed to be true everywhere in the diocese. My current situation, for example, is a good one. At least, I hope that things here are getting better now.
  • My main areas were the Archdiocese of Louisville, Covington and Owensboro with oversight in Nashville, Knoxville and Memphis. This was long ago in the 70's.
  • ghmus7
    Posts: 971
    Yes, It could have been much worse. There is Mozart, and some good hymns.
    The new hymn however, is pretty awful imo.
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 7,838
    It's worse
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 9,208
    I stick to Knoxville and rarely go to Nashville, so I missed this one. I am not even going to the Knoxville cathedral dedication in March. It's flu season and I can't take the shots although I hear they are pretty worthless this year. It will be too crowded. See what happens as you get old. You don't want to bother with it. Humbug!
  • I'll just say that from the program, it's very sad.
  • Could we place a moratorium on the Holst, please? I know in my diocese the tendency is to program that for the beginning of any pontifical mass.
  • Every hymn-text that I've sung to Thaxted feels utterly crammed into it, and I get no jollity at all from the effort, I'm afraid.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen Carol
  • CCoozeCCooze
    Posts: 684
    Charles, I'm participating in the vespers for the Cathedral dedication. I'm going back home, afterwards, though. So I won't be there for the Dedication Mass, either.
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 9,208
    Some of my folks will be participating. I am sure it will be quite nice, but it's better that I stay away from crowds as much as possible.
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 7,838
    What is the obsession with Thaxted the last few years? I don't get it.
    Thanked by 1Carol
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 3,791
    Every hymn-text that I've sung to Thaxted feels utterly crammed into it ...
    Exactly. And near the end, I cannot escape the (awkward? strange? uneasy?) feeling that an orchestra will break out in that "Jupiter, The Bringer of Jollity" orchestral music in which "Thaxted" is embedded ... to be followed by "Saturn, The Bringer of Old Age" which at my age isn't what I want my mind drifting to when singing such hymns.
    Thanked by 2StimsonInRehab Carol
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 9,208
    IMHO, I don't understand the spectacle mentality that seems to take over the minds of directing musicians at these events. Just what do they think they are trying to accomplish, put on a show? I wonder if those "awkward" moments that occur come from not understanding where they are going.
  • If they really want spectacle they should start with "Mars, the Bringer of War". The mind boggles what a procession to THAT would look like!
  • kevinfkevinf
    Posts: 1,026
    Though we did not always agree on everything, I do believe that, overall, he has pretty good taste in liturgy, and the selections for the Ordination Mass seem to be reflective of that. I think the people of Nashville are in good hands


    Lets be honest, these choices reflect a horrible sense of things. This is the selling out of liturgy for a warm fuzzy "Hi God" approach that makes people feel good about themselves and what they are doing. The balkanization of tradition for sweet little tunes ( the Missa My little Pony, for instance) reflects a poor sense of reverence, implicit bad formation and general lack of understanding of tradition.

    And for the record, the new Bishop of Nashville's parish in Louisville reflected the same saccharine musical stuff seen in this liturgy. No, this is not good. But it could have been much worse. And the Nashville diocese will not grow liturgically under this bishop. Only those few elements already in place will flourish but the diocese as a whole will not grow. Salvum fac populum Domine.
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • eft94530eft94530
    Posts: 1,498
    "Mars, the Bringer of War".

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwZkAgGuNdU

    But these days it is not politically correct to use the term
    The Church Militant
    Thanked by 1CCooze
  • The Church Militant is a term that a vast majority of people in the world do not understand. Its about the angels and saints of GOD who use the gifted weapons of light, truth and love, to confront and destroy ignorance, darkness, lies, wickedness, evil, harm, death, malicious pain and suffering, sloath, laziness, etc...
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen hilluminar
  • I’ve certainly seen worse... I found it interesting that the music was planned and executed by parish musicians, and not the cathedral musician. I would expect that, along with the committee nature of large events like this, contributed to the overall quality of the liturgy.

    Having directed the music for the recent installation of the bishop of the neighboring diocese, I can tell you that it’s quite an undertaking, and I would encourage consideration of the circumstances before being too harsh in judgment. The music was quite a few notches up the scale for the events I directed, though, and I was happy that the bishop both supported that and insisted upon it. I understand that Thaxted is used quite a bit, but I don’t apologize in the least for using it myself. The Proulx arrangement is quite fun (they used a different version), the congregation loves to sing it (in Memphis, at least), and we used the recently released orchestral arrangement that was made for the papal liturgy in NYC and it was an absolute blast—a choir of 80, orchestra of 21, and over 3,000 singing in the congregation.

    Thankfully, these events don’t happen too often in most dioceses.

    Marc
    Thanked by 1ebullock
  • Annabel
    Posts: 11
    The Church Militant is a term that a vast majority of people in the world
    including, it would seem, Ken of Sarum
    do not understand. It's
    not
    about the angels and saints
    who are members of the Church Triumphant.
    Thanked by 1JeanT
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 9,208
    Today it is known as the Church Transgendered.
  • Charles, does that mean that people who unwittingly use the Singular Plural are "Anonymous Christians" of the Church Transgendered?
    Thanked by 2Carol CharlesW
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 9,208
    Stimson, they may become the persecuted members the way things are going.
  • Annabel, you attack and condemn me without giving YOUR understanding of the Church Militant. I am curious to know also your educational and academic background in addition to your scholarly indepth understanding on this subject. The term "Church Militant" refers to the body of GOD's creatures that fight evil and wickedness where ever it is found; angels and saints on earth. The "Church Triumphant" are the creatures of GOD that are "not in battle" but rest from their labors, awaiting GOD's pleasure and are in a state of holy praise and adoration of GOD in heaven. In effect, the Church Militant graduates to the position of the Church Triumphant.

    BMus., MM., MSMus., DSMus., DDiv., DTheo., Artist Diplomas in Performance in Viola, Organ, Conducting and Singing.
  • KoS, I think that is Annabel's point... you could similarly make the argument that the souls in Purgatory (Church Suffering) are "graduates" from members of Church Militant. True, but I wouldn't classify them still as members of Church Militant, any more than I would class those in Church Triumphant still as members of Church Militant, or still as members of Church Suffering because they once were in Purgatory.

    I've always understood Church Militant as the ones still in the battle for salvation of one's soul; the ones still undergoing the test. That necessarily excludes all who have died, and the angels in heaven - both groups which were part of Church Militant during their own test.
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 896
    I love KoS and I'm glad he's a member here. I also think that Annabel and Incardination are correct in this case.
    Thanked by 2Incardination CCooze
  • Many aspect (partial and full) herein are correct; although from different church backgrounds both modern and ancient. The Orthodox have their interpretation too. But what is NOT helpful is attacking people personally and individually. Correction in love no matter how hurtful is fine. But to correct in a manner without offering kind insight and or loving suggestions is disappointing and sad.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 7,237
    I would be surprised to hear angels counted as members of the Church, the mystical Body of Christ.
  • fcbfcb
    Posts: 248
    Annabel may not have stated her point as gently as she could have, but she is correct, as least as to the ordinary usage of the terms. The Church militant refers to those on earth, the Church suffering to those in purgatory, and the Church triumphant to those in heavenly glory. As to the question of whether angels are member of the Church, St. Thomas thinks so: "the mystical body of the Church consists not only of men but of angels" (Summa theologiae III q. 8 a. 4).

    And if anyone cares about my credentials, M.A.R. Yale University; Ph.D. Duke University.
  • Thank you fcb regarding the ANGELIC DOCTOR - St Thomas Aquinas; I knew of his statement. If anyone is interested, might I suggest a more indepth research into the less modern concepts of this subject and into the early Father's thoughts and teachings; especially the Orthodox and Byzantine perspectives. Purgatory, for example, is not an early Christian concept or teaching. It is definitely not Pauline. I am aware that this will ruffle the feathers of many Roman Catholics, but Purgatory in a relatively modern doctrine. I say this in sincerity and with love.

    One might ask, how does all this relate to the original subject of this thread. I suggest it relates in that there are aspects of today's modern Christianity are in need of light and truth as relates to orthodoxy. I specifically refer to the possibilities that heresies and incorrect doctrines (according to the early Fathers), are still with us, abound, and we as the Church Militant must be ever on guard - IN LOVE - to confront them. GOD will hold us accountable whether its sacred music and art or the rites of the Church performed in and at places that have not been sanctified and set apart; especially auditoriums. This also relates to profane music and art and how it has seriously infiltrated into not only the public square but deeply into the minds, hearts and souls of congregations and its shepherds.

    We are all angels (messengers), some, spirits of fire, others with human souls. We all have a responsibility to march in the defense of GOD's light, truth and love!

    ps - Since I am not perfect, I too love to learn, and welcome any correction in loving kindness.
  • Xav
    Posts: 23
    Perhaps Ken of Sarum could explain what "kind insight and loving suggestions" are offered in his original comment, "hee-haw, it's party time in muzak city."
    Thanked by 1mattebery
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 7,237
    As an aside, an overview of the doctrine of purgatory , by the late Fr. John Hardon SJ, including the conciliar teachings from Lyons, Trent, and Vatican II, is at https://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=4677.

    On the other aside, thanks to fcb for the quotation from St. Thomas on whether angels are members of the Church; I wish he had explained the statement instead of just using it as a basis for the argument he was making in III q 8 a 4. FWIW, Pope Pius XII doesn't cite that quote or take a stand on that question in Mystici Corporis.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen eft94530
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 7,237
    But back to the installation music: it features the Missa "My Little Pony"; the Pachelbel Canon (an instrumental work labelled as an "anthem"!); and a non-rhyming original song composed for the occasion (page 32 of the booklet). I can't call that original piece a hymn, because it is addressed to the new bishop.

    E.g.:
    "There were those that came before you
    Like Peter, James and John
    Look to them to guide you
    In this journey that you’re on"

    And the worship aid needs some serious proofreading: e.g., it refers to a bishop "emeritis". With that spelling, it would have to be the name of an affliction imposed on bishops at age 75.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 9,208
    As an easterner, I don't put much stock in Purgatory. Latin theology run amok. No electronic distractions so those theologians had too much time on their hands. But easterners definitely do pray for the dead.

    On those ordinations. When the current bishop in my town was "installed," - always sounds like they are putting in a new plumbing fixture, doesn't it? A committee of three old ladies and one even older sister put together the music. My pastor at the time said the entire committee should have been scourged. It was truly awful. I didn't say it wasn't well performed, it was just music badly selected. Typical results from a committee.