New USCCB Spanish Missal
  • MNadalin
    Posts: 13
    Has anyone seen draft texts for the new Spanish Missal from the USCCB? Just wondering if I need to find a new setting of the ordinary for our Hispanic community.
    Thanked by 2KyleM18 eft94530
  • Matthew
    Posts: 31
    Wondering the same thing. Perhaps Fr. Krisman could shed some light?
    Thanked by 3KyleM18 eft94530 MNadalin
  • RevAMG
    Posts: 162
    The base text of the Spanish translation is that of the Misal Romano approved for the dioceses of Mexico but I don't know if the translation of the Ordinary of the Mass has changed. The Misal Romano has a first use date of the Pentecost Vigil (May 19, 2018) and a mandatory use date of the First Sunday of Advent (December 2, 2018) so there is time after publication to implement any musical changes.
  • Marc Cerisier
    Posts: 542
    I don’t have a copy of the current texts in Spanish, but if someone wants to send them to me, I’d be happy to compare them and see if there are any differences.
  • eft94530eft94530
    Posts: 1,577
    Perhaps this Discussion should be in Category "Music For Hispanic Ministry"
    Thanked by 2chonak MNadalin
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Could I want to find the really old Spanish missal, the one marked "Missale Romanum", with all the texts in an ancient form of Spanish?
    Thanked by 2MNadalin eft94530
  • RevAMG
    Posts: 162
    In addition to Liturgical Press, Catholic Book Publishing, Co. is publishing the Misal Romano. They have put a PDF sample of some of the texts, comparing them to the layout in their Roman Missal. Regardless of the some of the questionable graphics choices, I will say that as a priest, CBPC has the most easy-to-read layout and fonts of the major publishers (in my opinion) and the best tabs. They just need to update the graphics (clip art) in their editions.
    Thanked by 2MNadalin janetgorbitz
  • eft94530eft94530
    Posts: 1,577
    What music scores are printed in these new Spanish missals?
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,700
    If you look at the sample pages you'll see the introductory rites and preface fully notated. I'm guessing it's very similar to the English version in what is and isn't notated.
    Thanked by 1eft94530
  • RevAMG
    Posts: 162
    I believe that anything that is musically notated in the English Roman Missal will be musically notated in the Misal Romano. Catholic Book Publishing Co. has gone so far as to match pagination between the English and Spanish Missals (perhaps other publishers will do the same). I remember reading an article a while back about the notation of the prefaces in Spanish.
    Thanked by 1eft94530
  • Marc Cerisier
    Posts: 542
    I really dislike what Catholic Book Publishing does in squishing the music (in English and Spanish). I know for a fact that the music files supplied to them looked nothing like that.

    To the earlier question, anything that is notated in the English missal IS notated in the Spanish missal.

    Marc
    Thanked by 2janetgorbitz eft94530
  • janetgorbitzjanetgorbitz
    Posts: 968
    Marc, Can you share the notated portions so that a square-note version could be created for the Mass Ordinary?
    Thanked by 1eft94530
  • Marc Cerisier
    Posts: 542
    I'll ask the USCCB to see if that would be a possibility.
    Thanked by 2janetgorbitz eft94530
  • Felipe Gasper
    Posts: 804
    Some of the syllable combinations I’m used to doing in Spanish seem to be missing in the CBPC edition … for example, “En el nombre del Padre y del Hijo” … I’m used to combining “-dre” and “y” on the same syllable.

    Maybe that’s just me? I wonder how those were decided upon.
  • Marc Cerisier
    Posts: 542
    There was a committee of composers from various backgrounds in Hispanic ministry from around the country that prepared the music for the Missal. I can’t be sure from my phone, but it looks like the sign of the cross came directly from the most recent Mexican Missal, as did a handful of the shorter acclamations, as I don’t see a score from the composers for that in my files.

    I’m not aware of their original instructions, only their final output. In my own experience, what is common can vary quite a bit based on who you ask—as the lack of a standard version for the US led to much confusion and the use of Missals from around the Spanish speaking world. I have high hopes that the new Missal will be well received, and the parity between the English and Spanish editions will be fruitful.

    Marc
    Thanked by 4Felipe Gasper janetgorbitz Paul F. Ford eft94530
  • janetgorbitzjanetgorbitz
    Posts: 968
    Any updates? I'm wondering when the ordinaries will be posted online?
    Thanked by 1eft94530
  • CGM
    Posts: 705
    For those who may be interested, there is a series of workshops about the new Misal Romano, happening at various locations all over the country, starting in early May and running through July (with one outlier in September).
    Thanked by 2eft94530 janetgorbitz
  • Earl_GreyEarl_Grey
    Posts: 904
    I recently sent an inquiry about any online resources to the USCCB Office of Divine Worship and received a response.

    We're working on a page on our website that will have PDFs of all the chants in the Spanish Missal, similar to the page that ICEL has on its website with the chants for the English missal. I can't promise when it will be ready, but perhaps in a month or so. Our Spanish Missal will have more of these chants than any other Spanish Missal, and the content will be extremely close to what's found in the US English Missal.

    We've been told that National Association of Pastoral Musicians (NPM) plans to prepare a Spanish version of the pages they prepared containing recordings of those chants. I'm not sure how quickly that project is progressing -- you could contact them to find out.


    He also mentioned the series of workshops cited above. And then made the following statement about the translation in general:

    Overall, however, the transition to the new Spanish Missal is nowhere near as drastic a change as was the transition to the 3rd edition of the English Missal. There are very few changes to the Ordinary of the Mass, and very very little that affects the words spoken by the faithful. Many of the musical settings done by private composers that have been used for years can still be used, though it might be important to verify that on a case-by-case basis. (I have the impression that there are musical settings that use unauthorized versions of the Gloria, for example... they shouldn't have been used to begin with. I hope the release of an official US Spanish Missal will help eliminate these sorts of things -- the texts need to be accurate.)


    Thanked by 4MNadalin eft94530 janetgorbitz Caleferink
  • Jenny Donelson
    Posts: 259
    I'd recommend this series of workshops taking place in the DC area next weekend: https://domenicozipoli.org/events/. Among the highlights is a workshop for the celebrant's chants from the new missal.

    FRIDAY, APRIL 27TH - SEMINARIAN SACRED MUSIC WORKSHOP
    3:00pm - Welcome
    3:15 pm - “Inculturation of the Gospel through Music” - Dr. Heitor Caballero
    4:00pm - Practicum Sessions: Learning the chants of the Misal
    5:30pm - Sung Vespers
    6:00pm - Review the sung Mass in Spanish
    6:30pm - “Principles of Sacred Music according to the Magisterium” - Fr. Diego Ruiz, IVE

    SATURDAY, APRIL 28ST - CONGREGATIONAL SPANISH CHANT PRACTICUM
    8:30am Mass, Spanish Novus Ordo
    9:30am - Keynote Presentation, Mr. Heitor Caballero
    10:30am - Workshop, learning to sing the Spanish Mass for choirs and congregations
    12-12:30pm - Closing Address and Prayer

    The Knutsons have also put together these resources through the Zipoli Institute, including pew cards with the new chants: https://domenicozipoli.org/ive-spanish-hymnal
    Thanked by 2Earl_Grey eft94530
  • Earl_GreyEarl_Grey
    Posts: 904
    Thanks for Ziopli link. I was able to open the one page PDF but not the 2-page version which was in pages format.

    How did you get advanced copies of all of this to create a pew card and put together a workshop? I'm going to need to do something similar for our community, but the USCCB hasn't posted the materials yet.

    Does anyone know if the order of Mass and ordinaries as found in GIA's Oramos Candando match new official Missal text exactly or if there are discrepancies?

    I'd really like to have everything put together before the start of the academic year in August.
  • eft94530eft94530
    Posts: 1,577
    Misal Romano 1975 CEPLCEM (ie Mexico)
    vs
    Misal Romano 2018 USCCB (ie USA)

    I would feel better about this if we CMAA folks
    could coordinate our efforts for a divide-and-conquer-multi-pass text review,
    ie, two sets of eyes to compare each (ordinary, proper) text
    and identify differences, then knowing where the work must be done,
    to pick texts to update, so all benefit more quickly.

    I think @janetgorbitz and @eft94530 are vulnerable to changes to the Propers,
    and there are well over 100 texts to check.

    The Google Spreadsheet
    (everyone is able to view .. click the link and open in separate browser tab or window).
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ifCArPAPFf3Wd-pjcoTpJON6wW7q2J3GP7mh6pTA4XE/edit?usp=sharing

    Spreadsheet cell colors ..
    Grey = cell is null (ie no such item)
    White = citation and text
    Blue = cell refers to another cell in the same column
    Orange = cell has content .. other cells point to it
    Red = old cell 1975 vs new cell 2018 .. new cell text DIFFERENT (words or punctuation)
    Green = old cell 1975 vs new cell 2018 .. new cell text IDENTICAL (same)

    I will post a new Comment when I have completed the spreadsheet update.

    FYI EDIT:
    2018 December
    created website containing the spreadsheet
    building more pages and populating during 2019
    https://sites.google.com/view/propios-en-espanol
  • janetgorbitzjanetgorbitz
    Posts: 968
    Thanks very much! I was under the impression when I began working on the propers that those texts were unlikely to change much, if at all. I sincerely hope that turns out to be true.
    Thanked by 1eft94530
  • Jenny Donelson
    Posts: 259
    The Zipoli Institute has just released resources for the Misal Romano including:
    - Printable/PDF study guides for clergy
    - Congregational cards
    - Audio recordings

    Click here to access them.
    Thanked by 4CHGiffen Marc Cerisier benedictgal rich_enough
  • benedictgal
    Posts: 798
    I was able to see the new Spanish chants. As much as they are a good step for Spanish-language liturgical music, they are not as good as the ones that Fr. Matthew Spencer shared with this group about six years ago. The Misal Romano chants of the Señor Ten Piedad and the Gloria are too clunky. They don't flow as well as the chants that Fr. Spencer set.
    Thanked by 3Paul F. Ford eft94530 CHGiffen
  • Earl_GreyEarl_Grey
    Posts: 904
    whatever happened to that project? morello.org hasn't been updated in ages. I'd like to see a complete Simplex in Spanish.
    Thanked by 1eft94530
  • benedictgal
    Posts: 798
    I don't know. When I checked the webpage, it was not there anymore.
  • eft94530eft94530
    Posts: 1,577
    http://www.usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/la-santa-misa/musica-para-el-misal-romano.cfm


    Música para el Misal Romano, Tercera Edición

    Introducción — Introduction

    La siguiente música y textos se pueden reproducir gratuitamente en forma impresa con fines no comerciales, en publicaciones que no están a la venta, en parroquias, diócesis, escuelas y comunidades religiosas, siempre que el reconocimiento de copyright se incluya al pie de cada página.

    The following music and texts may be reproduced free of charge in printed form, for non-commercial purposes, in publications not for sale, by parishes, dioceses, schools, and religious communities, provided that the copyright acknowledgment which appears at the foot of each page is included. (For English-language chant files, see Music for the Roman Missal. . . , provided by the International Commission on English in the Liturgy.)
    Thanked by 2Felipe Gasper CHGiffen
  • janetgorbitzjanetgorbitz
    Posts: 968
    Fantastic news!
    Thanked by 1eft94530
  • Felipe Gasper
    Posts: 804
    Curious. The responses at the readings seem to be based on the Graduale Romanum rather than the Missal.
    Thanked by 1eft94530
  • CGM
    Posts: 705
    Anyone know why the Zipoli folks omitted Kyrie no. 3 (i.e. the one immediately following the two Christe's) from their six-fold Kyrie? See pewcard here.
    The form as printed is Kyrie-Kyrie, Christe-Christe, final Kyrie. Weird, no?

    It appears that the musical notation was taken in screenshots from a USCCB publication (the notation style and text fonts are the same as the Roman Missal in English). If that is true, then the question becomes, why did the USCCB omit Kyrie no. 3 from their six-fold Kyrie?
    Thanked by 1irishtenor
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,333
    @CGM -- that seems very strange indeed! I can't imagine the rationale for that!
  • Earl_GreyEarl_Grey
    Posts: 904
    Probably just a typo. I would contact them directly.
  • Marc Cerisier
    Posts: 542
    This I can answer—because I engraved it that way. They were supposed to copy and paste the first Kyrie down after the Christe, as there was the principal throughout the files that if something was the same in more than one area, it would only be done once and then adjusted in InDesign so that there wouldn’t be the possibility that the same thing ever looked different when it shouldn’t. Unfortunatly, those working with the files didn’t all handle that reality with an even hand. Other examples... the preface dialogue was only done once and had to be added... the doxology to the EPs was only done once... the memorial acclamations were only done once. In most cases, the editors got it right. The Kyrie, though, seems to have stumped most of them!

    Oh well, maybe the second printings will fix this. Ultimately, while the files were prepared in a timely manner, and ahead of the contracted due date, there was still a great rush to get the final materials out quickly, and not all things were caught. (And I had no part in it beyond providing the initial files—no opportunity to proofread).
    Thanked by 5irishtenor Paul F. Ford Matthew janetgorbitz eft94530
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