Orthodoxy and orthodoxy -
  • In plying the internet news very recently (as in five minutes ago) I was shocked, quite literally stunned, at an article about our brethren, the Orthodox. Says one Orthodox hierarch, 'Orthodoxy may need to adapt to the times to remain relevant in a changing world'. My heart sank. There is that vile and tenacious concern for 'relevancy' (about which our Lord seems not to have been the least bit concerned!) that was the oriflamme of the sixties and which spawned that liturgical, musical, and even theological debacle whose Stygian vapours still pollute the air and show every sign of hovering about, like a dread fog of ritual pollution, for decades to come. And to think that one had taken some encouragement from knowing that there was one, just one, branch of Christendom which was immune to the pied piper of the moderne, the chic, and the trashy music. From the snares of the devil, spare us, good Lord. Could it actually come to pass that the Orthodox will stop being orthodox? Will their liturgy be peppered with that insulting and stupid trivia that flows from the chatty mouths of Frs Good Morning Folks? Does this mean that the iconostasis will be competing for attention with amateruish and tasteless banners, and that their priests will all of a sudden claim that they can't or won't sing/chant? Surely their cantors won't be falling all over themselves learning how to pirouette and become masters of the technique of arm flailing?! Will their priests and influential laity begin to equivocate on niceties of dogma and doctrine that are embarrassing? Oh, please, let them not queue up to take any cues at all from their Roman Catholic brethren, for, surely, if they do they just might attract a few souls from this or that 'target group', but become irrelevant to those who keep the Faith. The last thing the world needs is a mega-church that thinks it is Orthodox - or orthodox.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 9,387
    The mistake there is assuming all of Orthodoxy is identical. The Greek and Russian branches, for example, use the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom. The Russians are ultra-conservative and some Greeks in the U.S. can veer in the other direction. Other branches have their own liturgies, such as the Coptic and Syrian branches which are very different. My experience is that when you hear "adapt to the times" it is often coming from somewhere in the western world which, too often, sees itself as the center of the universe. Is it "adapt to the times" in 21st-century Russia? It is not.
  • I agree MJO. I enjoy the current Russian Orthodox Church and its principal wise leadership. If only the Anglicans and Romans could return to their orthodoxy and scholarship too.

    However, I believe in the bible and its prophecies. A one world church and government are on the march. All too soon this demonic agenda will consume just about everything, resulting in very few true believing authentic Christians; regardless of denomination.

    I don't mean to sound negative but GOD's watchers on the walls must sound the trump and sound out. Sound orthodox doctrine, liturgy and theology AS WELL AS SACRED MUSIC in churches will only get worse and worse worldwide. All too often I read postings here from sincere and well meaning sources of things improving. But I put to you that these are in the minority and in truth are not enduring.

    Yes, things are changing as all things must; but not for the good. Awake, awake for night is flying, the watchmen on the height are crying and the thief is coming to rob, steal, plunder and murder. But rejoice, one day Our Lord will restore all good and righteousness. Until then we must not be ignorant nor in denial brothers and sisters.
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 7,921
    "When I return will I find faith on the earth?"

    Hold onto you maniples!

    Common symbolic comments refer to the maniple's likeness to the rope by which Christ was led and the chains which bound his hands. It has also become known as an emblem of the tears of penance, the burden of sin, and the fatigue of the priestly office.
    Thanked by 1JonathanLC
  • Welcome to the human race, people. No matter how long your beards (nor how big your Canterbury caps) - they can't hide over ORIGINAL SIN
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • The Church should not be relevant to the rest of the world: they represent different things. The Church represents the world to come, whereas the secular world is that of the now.
  • I feel that 'relevance' should only be considered in its approach to effecient church administration, effective fundraising, catechetical instruction and outreach. In these matters we ought to be "wise as serpents and simple as doves." - Matt 10:16
  • As with all religions, some people tend to veer away from the original views of their church, but the majority of Orthodox believers still have traditional views.