Ne reminiscaris
  • Is the antiphon Ne reminiscaris used in any of the rites of the OF anywhere? Just looking for an official English translation if so. Thanks.
  • I see it's an option in funerals at the final commendation in the GS, but I don't find it in the actual Ritual.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    Any chance it might be in the Latin version of the funeral ritual?
    Thanked by 1ClemensRomanus
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,394
    It is the first prayer text (given as an antiphon to be used with any or all of five penitential psalms) in the Praeparatio ad Missam in the front pages of the 1962 Missale Romanum; but neither it nor any of those penitential psalms is included among the optional prayers in preparation for Mass found in post-conciliar Latin editions of the Missale Romanum.
    (See http://praeparatioadmissam.com/praeparatio.html#prima )

    If it is anywhere in the 1969 Latin editio typica of the Ordo Exsequiarum (which I doubt, having quickly scrolled though that text online at https://www.scribd.com/document/256412870/Ordo-Exsequiarum-1969 ), by law it would have to be contained in the English Order of Christian Funerals.
    Thanked by 1ClemensRomanus
  • If it's in the editio typica of the Graduale Simplex, it's part of the rites of the OF.
    Thanked by 1ClemensRomanus
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,394
    Yes, it's on page 422 of the Graduale Simplex:


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  • It's listed in the OCO for 3 days (corroborated here), but I can't find an English translation. My pastor likes to use official translations only in the bulletin. We're going to be chanting the Penitential Psalms with this antiphon, and I was hoping I could find an official translation for him. Thanks for all your help, by the way!
  • We'll, the translations in By Flowing Waters are official (ICEL 1968) and have AFAIK never been superseded. So "Do not punish me, O Lord, for my sins and my unwitting offenses, and those that my ancestors committed before you."

    Rather in the old Comme le prévoit style, though.
  • The antiphon is either from a very ancient Latin translation, or has been recast at some time.
    et nunc Domine memor esto mei ne vindictam sumas de peccatis meis neque reminiscaris delicta mea vel parentum meorum (Tob. 3:3 VUL)
    The ICEL seems to relate better to the Nova Vulgata, as do the English translations, than to the text of the antiphon. (Which begins "Do not remember, O Lord, ...")
    And now, Lord, be mindful of me and look with favor upon me. Do not punish me for my sins, or for my inadvertent offenses, or for those of my ancestors. "They sinned against you, (Tob. 3:3 NAB)

    Et nunc, Domine, memor esto mei et respice in me; ne vindictam sumas de me pro peccatis meis et pro neglegentiis meis et parentum meorum, quibus peccaverunt ante te, (Tob. 3:3 NOV)
    That creates a problem for the bulletin/pastor, whether to give the official 'translation', or the meaning of the Latin. Perhaps just say 'from Tob 3:3' - and quote the whole verse..
    Thanked by 1ClemensRomanus
  • Thanks, all! Much obliged.
  • Late thought, Douay-Rheims (American 1899) -
    And now, O Lord, think of me, and take not revenge of my sins, neither remember my offenses, nor those of my parents. (Tob. 3:3 DRA)
    presumably that was official once upon a time.
    And acknowledgement throughout to BibleWorks 10
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,394
    presumably that was official once upon a time.

    Not really. In that "once upon a time" the vernacular was not used in the liturgy.
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,394
    We'll, the translations in By Flowing Waters are official (ICEL 1968)

    I know that ICEL translated, or was in the process of translating, the Graduale Simplex. I've seen the text in its typewritten manuscript form, but not in the final published form in which ICEL presents its texts to the English-speaking conferences of bishops.

    But, for translations to be approved for use in the liturgy, the approval of the conference of bishops and confirmation of the Apostolic See are necessary. Does anyone know when the NCCB approved that translation, and when the Apostolic See confirmed that decision and what the protocol number of that confirmation is?
  • According to the notices in BFW, ICEL's translation was "confirmed for Liturgical use by the Consilium for the Implementation of the Constitution on the Liturgy, December 9, 1968 (Prot no. 2709/68).". My question would be, what did that confirmation do legally in 1968? And is there any reason to say that the status has changed since?
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,394
    Thank you, Andrew. But this information is puzzling, as is the fact that The Simple Gradual for Sundays and Holy Days (Geoffrey Chapman, published in 1969) contains no notice of approval by the bishops' conference of English and Wales, nor of that December 1968 confirmation you referred to by the Consilium, but only of a concordat cum originali from John Humphreys, Secretary of the National Liturgical Commission of English and Wales.

    Was the text ever canonically approved by the NCCB, the CCCB, the Bishops of England and Wales, or the bishops of any other English-speaking conference of bishops?
    My question would be, what did that confirmation do legally in 1968?

    That is the question. If the Concilium "confirmed" a text before any episcopal conference had approved it, such would have been outside the norms for approval of liturgical texts. Was that "confirmatio," in reality, an "approved for liturgical use," but not by a conference of bishops, but by the Consilium? Curiouser and curiouser.
  • The vernacular may not have been used IN the Mass, but the readings were proclaimed at a gap where there was also a sermon and announcements. I have a 1957 published Knox translation described on the title page as 'Authorised by the hierarchy of England and Wales, and the hierarchy of Scotland' and bearing the Imprimatur of Bernard Cardinal Griffin.
    Incidentally, Knox's idiosyncratic translation of Tob 3:3 is
    Yet bethink thee, Lord, of my case; leave my sins unpunished, my guilt, and the guilt of my parents, forgotten.
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,394
    Yes, authorization by a national hierarchy (there were no conferences of bishops in 1957) and imprimatur do not constitute "approval for use in the liturgy."
  • Did a legal mechanism even exist in 1968 for approval of liturgical translations qua translations? I'm suspecting not, but would be pleased to know the truth.
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,394
    Yes, that legal mechanism was established within a year after the promulgation of the Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy (4 December 1963): from SC (especially arts. 22 §2 and 39) through norm X of Paul VI's motu proprio Sacram Liturgiam (25 January 1964) to no. 57 of the first instruction Inter Oecumenici (26 September 1964).

    No. 57 of Inter Oecumenici is about vernacular translations: "For Masses, whether sung or recited, celebrated with a congregation, the competent territorial ecclesiastical authority on approval, that is confirmation, of its decisions by the Holy See, may introduce the vernacular into: [list follows]."
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    Thanks, everyone, for finding the information. I hope it'll be official enough for bulletin use.
  • It'll work for me. Thanks so much to everyone!
  • Cool!