O Dei sapientia attingens
  • frkormosfrkormos
    Posts: 6
    First post, so hello everybody.

    I am trying to assemble a booklet of breviary hymns, and I have been trying to hunt down a source for the melody of the above hymn, used for the Presentation of Christ at Lauds in the Anglican Breviary. It is a rather obscure one as far as I can tell, and the only source I was able to find was in a MS, (Copenhagen, Det kongelige Bibliotek Slotsholmen, Gl. Kgl. S. 3449, 8o I), but as I am only an enthusiastic hobbyist in chant, I have great trouble decoding the notes – it is in a notation I have not encountered before. There are a number of microfilm scans of the hymn here, here and here.

    I had a go at transcribing it into gabc taking some clues from how cantusindex have transcribed it, so I have attached the results – could somebody have a look at it suggest corrections please? Again, I am far from an expert in – I only gave it my best shot.

    Thank you in advance!
    gregorio5994b27e7278b9.22789747.png
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    o dei sapientia gabc.txt
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  • smvanroodesmvanroode
    Posts: 1,000
    Welcome to the forum, frkormos!

    There are other sources where this hymn can be found, for example St. Gallen, Stiftsbibliothek, Cod. Sang. 440, p. 1r.

    More on this hymn, including a long list of manuscripts (without mention of folios!) can be found here.

    In order to establish a melody from manuscripts that isn't found in modern chant books, it's always good to have multiple sources. I hope this helps!
    Thanked by 1frkormos
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,789
    It is common to use the same melody for Hymns of the same meter during a feast. Are the other Hymns for the Feast of the same meter? If so I would use that melody instead of digging out older melodies.
    Thanked by 1frkormos
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,513
    Greetings, Fr. Kormos, and welcome.
    Thanked by 1frkormos
  • frkormosfrkormos
    Posts: 6
    Thank you for all the responses.

    It is common to use the same melody for Hymns of the same meter during a feast.
    There are a number of others in an 8.8.8.8 metre (e.g. Adorna, Sion, thalamum), and I have done that on many other occasions, when faced with hymns that are not as widely available – although I would love to be able to use the proper melodies as often as possible.

    There are other sources where this hymn can be found, for example St. Gallen, Stiftsbibliothek, Cod. Sang. 440, p. 1r.


    Thank you for pointing me to different sources! That is hugely helpful. The St Gallen MS is much clearer to read, and after JonLaird posted this neume comparison chart just last night, I should be able to decipher what I understand to be Gothic notation much easier.

    Edit: I had another go at transcribing. Does the attached file look correct? There is one difference that seems significant between St Gallen and the source I found (Breviarium per totum annum, the Copenhangen MS above) – just at "vitia": St Gallen would have vi(ih)ti(g)a(f), while the Breviarium has vi(iv)ti(h)a(f). What is the suggested method of resolving such clashes?
    gregorio5996c068482f12.23292973.pdf
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  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,789
    what is the suggested method of resolving such clashes?


    Such clashes are common, the manuscripts do not always agree. You could do a search for that melody and see which version is more common, or use the oldest version you can find or most recent...

    I had another go at transcribing. Does the attached file look correct?


    Looks fine... The melody seems familiar, but can't remember where I have seen it.
  • JonathanKKJonathanKK
    Posts: 542
    Compare with the tune used for a number of Marian office hymns such as O gloriosa Virginum.
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,789
    @JonathanKK

    Yes it is similar to that Roman melody, but I think there is a closer match among non Roman melodies...
  • frkormosfrkormos
    Posts: 6
    Compare with the tune used for a number of Marian office hymns such as O gloriosa Virginum.
    That looks extremely similar – I knew the melody was familiar from somewhere! Thank you for pointing me in its direction.

    but I think there is a closer match among non Roman melodies...
    If you can remember what it is, it would be fantastic to know. I think the Anglican Breviary borrows it from Parisian breviaries, but looking through its foreword and general acknowledgements, I do not see what exact sources these would be.
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