Repercussion on Last Note of Tristropha?
  • madorganist
    Posts: 906
    This question is for those who use the so-called old Solesmes method. In instances where the last note of a tristropha would appear to be ictic, should there be a repercussion? For an example, see the word "terrarum" in the Pentecost introit.
    It should be remembered that a repercussion (or fresh layer of voice) is required each time a note affected by the ictus is of the same degree as the one immediately preceding it. (Rules for Interpretation)
    Does this apply in such a case? Or should rule 2 be ignored and the ictus placed on the next note instead of the beginning of the distropha? If the ictus is placed on the last note of the tristropha and the first note of the distropha, but there is no repercussion at the end of the tristropha, how should the ictus be indicated in the chironomy without tempting the singers to rush ahead?
  • Priestboi
    Posts: 155
    There are quite a few ways to render this chant. Some leave out the repercussions, others seem to belt them out and still others understate them (I prefer an understatement in this case to not at all).

    Perhaps these recordings may help:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYQ8aWriyys
    (Vienna Hofburgkapelle)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XAQGmFHXec
    (CC Watershed)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoApQ6YKzaE
    (Gradual Project) - Interesting, but a little haphazard - feels a little unstable, but I love this channel.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9qt4vlPoRw
    (Monjes de Santos Sepulcros) - Nice tempo

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8mHEJd9AtM
    (Papal Mass - a bit meh)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20LZsrGigDg
    (Schola Gregoriana Mediolanensis)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XtoLapMBw8
    (Chiesa di San Pantalon - Venezi)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyM0PPDhi1o
    (The Cistercian Monks of Stift Heiligenkreuz ) - My favourite of all - Solesmes with repercussions (Good speed, very musical, could do with a little freedom in the "ornamentation" if one is so inclined)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rusAloO4oY
    (Pierre-Emmanuel Desmaizières) - Its a bit slow, but I like the freedom and the rendering of the "ornamentation" - leans toward a more byzantine feel.

    Sadly no Peres interpretation on YouTube :(
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen Richard Mix
  • JonathanKKJonathanKK
    Posts: 542
    By the way, what are you quoting from?

    I am certain that the counting is not affected by such instances.

    Also, common sense is that it would be quite bad taste to repercuss only the last note of a tristropha.

    My sense is rather that you would repercuss the beginning of a group / neume, not just anywhere the ictus fell. For example, see how the Liber Usualis puts it, HERE.

    As for the conducting, I don't think a choir used to Solesmes counting would be bothered by this; and anyhow, you would probably be conducting a thesis gesture.

    Also, you can conduct the thesis such that your ictus / downward touching point is on the last note of the tristropha, very subtle; but then make the "rebound" bounce such that it is the remarkable thing, and serves to bring out the word accent on the "off-beat".

    You get the idea, I hope.
    Thanked by 2madorganist CHGiffen
  • madorganist
    Posts: 906
    Priestboi, interesting recordings, but none of them shows the conductor, which is what I'm really interested in.

    JonathanKK, the quote is from the same document you linked to, the "Rules for Interpretation" from the Liber, p. xxviii.
  • madorganist
    Posts: 906
    Looking at upcoming Masses, I see a similar example in the offertory "Improperium" for the feast of the Sacred Heart, at the word "consolantem." But here, there's no consideration of bringing out a word accent.
  • Arthur Connick
    Posts: 496
    There is a brief discussion of repercussions on the tristropha in J R Carroll's An Applied Course in Gregorian Chant, starting at p. 44, which is posted on musicasacra.com. See also p.75 ff. in Advanced Studies in Gregorian Chant (Ward) and pp. 129 and 166 in Gregorian Chant Practicum (Ward/Marier).
    Thanked by 1madorganist
  • madorganist
    Posts: 906
    Many thanks, Arthur. This is exactly what I was seeking - extraordinarily helpful!
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