Unleash the Gospel... but Respect the Liturgy
  • The following article praises Abp. Vigneron's new letter for the Detroit Archdiocese:

    here.

    It sounds like a wonderful thing, and I hope it produces great fruit.

    However, the section describing a "transformative Sunday experience (hymns, hospitality, and homily)," which is about preparing us for mission, seems wrongheaded, to say the least. Is the Mass and Office really just a weekly inspirational meeting that gets us ready to go out and speak the Gospel? Or is the Liturgy that divine wellspring from which we draw Living Water, transforming our whole life, directing it as it does toward God, and in that way preparing us for the apostolate?
  • Hyperbole and hyperventilation aside, what do others think of this?

    Edit: By the double H's, I refer to my own.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    And alliteration as well.....
    Still "insider baseball" jargon. What would such a pastoral letter from Abp. Conley (Lincoln) contain?
  • Paul F. Ford
    Posts: 778
    The archbishop and his music director are wonderful people, whom we can trust. Let us pray for their success.
  • Thank you, Paul. Let us pray indeed.
  • Romantic Strings,

    I've just watched the video clip at the Archdiocesan site. I hope the letter is different from the video clip. Here's why

    1) "Hymns, hospitality, homily" allegedly addresses the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, but unless it strengthens our Catholic identity, this focus on hymns, etc, will merely weaken our apostolic work in the Archdiocese of Detroit.

    2) Surely there are better ways to show the Church's mission other than girl altar boys, communion in the hand, a waved-around monstrance and bishops nearly dancing at one point?

    After having read a portion of the document, I find this disturbing:

    A spirit of innovation. The rapidly changing cultural situation in which we find ourselves requires that we think in new and creative ways. We need to be willing to jettison some old structures that no longer work and to experiment with new ones. As St. Paul tried different missionary strategies in different settings (cf. 1 Cor 9:19-23), so we need to be innovative, flexible, adaptable, unafraid to make mistakes, and willing to learn from the good ideas of others.
    Thanked by 1Casavant Organist
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 1,327
    We need to be willing to jettison some old structures that no longer work and to experiment with new ones.


    I think this refers to old structures built in the late 60's, such a long time ago, not built to last, and no longer useful or needed in this day and age.
  • Here is a commentary on the new shield:
    https://exarandorum.wordpress.com/2017/06/05/detroit-coat-of-arms-redesign-epic-fail/

    Edited: to remove poorly conceived rant.
  • Edited:
    .
  • Edit:
    I was ranting, so I will pray for the success of ventures like this, while also praying that the liturgy not be leashed to our evangelical imperative.
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 966
    That new coat of arms is not good.
  • dad29
    Posts: 1,629
    The rapidly changing cultural situation in which we find ourselves requires that we think in new and creative ways


    An oblique reference to impending Muslim dominance of Detroit metro??
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 9,574
    One of the things has helped cause the need for the gospel is goofy priests and prelates who haven't done a very good job of living it or proclaiming it. Everything bad can't be blamed on the culture. Many of the Catholic Church's wounds are entirely self inflicted.
  • Liam
    Posts: 3,552
    CharlesW

    But that goofiness could be said to have antecedants in a brittle, shallow and formalistic Catholic culture in the same places. It's also related to the dynamic of what happened to cultures with state churches after the churches lost their purchase on popular assent (this happened in the USA on a lag compared to many other largely Christian nations).
    Thanked by 2tomjaw CharlesW
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 9,574
    I agree, but the culture seems an easy target to blame for everything. It played its part, but had willing fools helping it along.
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • Reval
    Posts: 150
    "For parishes:
    1) Recommitment to personal prayer as the highest priority for parish leadership and parishioners
    2) "Generous availability" of the Sacrament of Reconciliation
    3) "Shallow entry points" for people who are seeking Jesus
    4) Transformational Sunday experience (Hymns, Hospitality, Homily)"

    Hmmm. Not the liturgy? Personal prayer is the highest priority for "parish leadership"?
    "Shallow entry points" for people seeking Jesus. I guess this means that the music ought to be "pastoral". Maybe Masses can be advertised that way.

    7:30 Sunday - High Dive into Church Tradition.
    9:30 Sunday - Shallow Entry Point Mass.

    That Transformational word is straight out of ""Rebuilt", isn't it?
    Thanked by 1Jenny
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 7,482
    There are some good points in that list: an emphasis on personal prayer seems to show an understanding that all involved should be seeking personal sanctification. A generous availability of Confession is certainly laudable.

    The idea of "shallow entry points" could be something good: offering opportunities for uncertain people to attend without any embarrassment at their unfamiliarity. This suggestion illustrates a certain weakness in overly rigorous demands for "full conscious active participation".

    Calls for "transformational Sunday experience" seem to leave out an understanding that the liturgy is worship directed to God, an act carried out for its own sake. Perhaps someone is taking ideas from Evangelical Protestants, who have the tradition of the "altar call" and other ways of appealing for conversion and repentance in their services.
  • Perhaps someone is taking ideas from Evangelical Protestants,


    Perhaps? Perhaps perhapsWhat were the other possible sources of such bizarre ideas as "transformational Sunday experience" combined with "shallow entry points"?
  • I took "shallow entry points" to refer to non-liturgical parish activities.
  • eft94530eft94530
    Posts: 1,551
    Hyperbole and hyperventilation aside, what do others think of this?


    Primary sources are best.
    Instead of giving a link to an interpretation (laltocatholic)
    purple=ON I had no idea detroit looked like that purple=OFF

    I recommend the OP give the link to the official site (http://unleashthegospel.org/)

    opportunities for uncertain people to attend without any embarrassment at their unfamiliarity

    I thought that is why people sit in the last pew.
    Whatever the people in front of you do is to be imitated (stand sit kneel).
    Imagine people showing up to a social ..
    Hi my name is xxx
    Hi my name is yyy what mass to you go to?
    But now-a-days during Mass Fr Happy wants you to stand and introduce yourself.
    (To quote a niece at age three .. Eww Yuk.)
  • Romantic Strings --

    On what basis would you come to that conclusion?
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 7,482
    opportunities for uncertain people to attend without any embarrassment at their unfamiliarity

    I thought that is why people sit in the last pew.
    Whatever the people in front of you do is to be imitated (stand sit kneel).

    Yes: the Catholic Church has been good about this for a long time.

    I only wish people would be smart enough to sit not-in-the-front-row if they are unfamiliar with Mass. It seems that at funerals the front row often is occupied by people who don't know when to kneel.

    We need a new "parish ministry" of people who can serve as models for the rest of the congregation by sitting in the front and kneeling or standing at the right times.
    Thanked by 2a_f_hawkins eft94530
  • Chris, I assumed that in part because it is what I first thought of, but also because only one of the points explicitly refers to Sunday, so the rest must be about other things (my line of thought went).

    eft, I debated whether to link to the original, but I first heard about the initiative through the article to which I linked in the OP, and I figured/assumed (wrongly?) that others would go from there to the original (if they were so inclined).
    Thanked by 1eft94530
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 1,224
    I don’t know the number of faithful at the new ICRSS apostolate, but the word was that it was already thriving. The TLM folks have a few options in Detroit as it is, at least on Sundays. Perhaps their example is worth following...