Dum transisset sabbatum (Sarum use)
  • hildegardofbrompton
    Posts: 35
    I am transcribing the verse chant for Tallis's setting of the above. I have located the Responsory at http://hmcwordpress.mcmaster.ca/renwick/resources/praying-the-office/ but the Doxology is not included and the ref. (p. XX) given. I cannot find that page - perhaps it hasn't yet been transcribed. Yes, there are many transcriptions on the www. David Fraser's on cpdl is very fine, other than notating the incipit at the wrong pitch. He gives his source for the chant as Antiphonale as usum ecclesie Sarum (London, 1519). I cannot find this.

    I am keen to see a transcription in quadratic notation or original semiology, if that even exists. I have also located Tone iv 'Gloria' elsewhere (see below) but the pointing differs a little from that which I have seen in modern transcriptions of Tallis's setting. Why? Also, what is that hard B doing at 'sabbatorum' in the verse? I have not seen that in modern transcriptions either, and I would not expect to see or hear it there.

    Can anyone help?

    Many thanks,

    Simon.

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    Dum transisset (Sarum) 1.tiff
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    Dum transisset (Sarum) 2.tiff
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    Mode iv Gloria (resp.).tiff
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  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,802
    The Sarum books are available on microfilm... and have also been scanned, sadly you need access to a library to read them... Unless someone has sent you the .pdf!

    Here is the scan, I am looking for the Gloria Patri... these old books are not arranged in the same way as modern Antiphonals...
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    AntiphonaleSarum1519pg216 .pdf
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  • hildegardofbrompton
    Posts: 35
    Thank you. That is very useful. It confirms that the beginning of doxology is as we often see it transcribed in our time, and the change of clef settles the matter about the soft B in the verse.
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,802
    I have been given a file of some of the Sarum books, including the Antiphonal of 1519... I can not find the page with the Gloria Tones, and have not worked out what the ST reference means.
    The best way would be to perhaps e-mail our friends in Canada that run the Sarum Chant website and ask... Otherwise I could ask a colleague...
  • hildegardofbrompton
    Posts: 35
    OK. I shall send them an email, but if you are abe to ask a colleague, I would be grateful of any other information.
  • Daniel Bennett PageDaniel Bennett Page
    Posts: 837
    I believe ST refers to the Sarum Tonale, a book giving the various forms of each tone.
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    Thanked by 3hildegardofbrompton tomjaw CHGiffen
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,802
    I don't have access to the Sarum Tonale... but there are various books with the transcriptions available (google). Will ask about variations in the melodies, although I am not surprised that there are differences, it appears to be the rule rather than the exception!
    Thanked by 1hildegardofbrompton
  • hildegardofbrompton
    Posts: 35
    Yes, I see that, having spent about an hour trawling resource sites via melodies for the Gloria Patri! The search continues...
  • Daniel Bennett PageDaniel Bennett Page
    Posts: 837
    The text and some images from the Sarum Tonale can be consulted here: http://boethius.music.indiana.edu/tml/13th/SARTON.
    Thanked by 1hildegardofbrompton
  • Protasius
    Posts: 468
    This responsory and the 4th tone doxology are also contained in the Liber responsorialis as the 3rd responsory of Easter matins (without the doxology per monastic use) and in the Common tones, respectively. I therefore expect that you will find the adiastematic neumes in the Hartker antiphonale (to be found on IMSLP as Antiphonarium officii).
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen hildegardofbrompton
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