Novus Ordo Latin Alleluia English plain daily ordinary no feast Mass question
  • JesJes
    Posts: 576
    Okay, so, I am frequently being asked by priests to celebrate their novus ordo masses on their personal occasions - such as moving parish, or inviting youth etc.
    I have both Graduale Romanums, (61, 62 and 74), A Gregorian Missal, A regular sunday missal, a Roman Missal 1962, a Liber Hymnarius, the online pdf Liber, the cantus selecti, a triplex, a simplex, a duplex
    I have also searched online.

    I can't seem to find this particular Alleluia in Latin! I can find the text but not with an alleluia, and I can find the english text for the day, and I can find the latin text for the day but they are not at all alike.

    If I'm doing an english novus ordo mass but wish to add some latin things, such as propers from the day and it's a normal weekday and not a feast what do I actually do?

    E.g.
    this upcoming February 1 there is a youth mass.
    Lots of traddies will be there but the mass will be a novus ordo english mass.
    Priest would like a latin alleluia verse to be lead by the choir in chant (choir are comfortable reading the triplex so I don't want to do a simplex thing if I don't have to.
    the text translation according to the latin bible is
    Alleluia
    Oves meae vocem meam audiunt, dicit Dominus, et ego cognosco eas et sequuntur me.
    Alleluia
    whilst I cannot find this in any of the above books except for in english in my daily missal I can find this
    http://cantusindex.org/id/004203
    and I found this http://cantus.uwaterloo.ca/id/004203
    I've attached images I found too.
    None of these are in the context of an alleluia, but lots are in mode 4, does this mean I could just potentially pick an alleluia in mode 4 and just shove this in the middle?
    or is that even more of a no no despite the ability to do almost anything in NO masses these days? (at least it isn't rock songs yeah?)

    the alternative is to use the different latin verse found in the various other books pertaining to "trad feasts" in different countries?

    I'm confused!
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  • Xav
    Posts: 23
    If he really is saying the ferial Mass on 1 February (Wednesday in the Fourth Week of Ordinary Time), wouldn't the appropriate Alleluia be Adorabo ad templum sanctum: et confitebor nomini tuo at p. 270 in the 1974 Graduale? Could he have chosen (perfectly legitimately) to say a votive Mass or one of the Masses for Various Needs and Occasions instead?
    Thanked by 1Jes
  • smvanroodesmvanroode
    Posts: 998
    Yes, the most appropriate Alleluia would be Adorabo ad templum, as mentioned by Xav. It's the Alleluia of the fourth week «per annum».

    If the Alleluia is to be sung in Latin with Gregorian chant, choose the one from the Graduale Romanum. This can have a verse that's completely different from what the lectionary has. That's no problem; GIRM 62a gives both as a legitimate option:

    "62a. The Alleluia is sung in every time of year other than Lent. The verses are taken from the Lectionary or the Graduale."
    Thanked by 1Xav
  • Andrew_Malton
    Posts: 1,187
    On the other hand, the priest who would like a Latin Alleluia verse might still prefer the ordinary form Alleluia ("acclamation") rather than the traditional, melismatic Alleluia. Also (as I was recently reminded in a certain parish) the priest may rather prefer (insist on?) the verse from the Ordo lectionum missae, which is "Oves meae" indeed.

    In which case use a Simplex Alleluia which the assembly knows or easily imitates, and chant the verse to a tone.
    Thanked by 2Xav Adam Wood
  • JesJes
    Posts: 576
    @Xav that text would be fine except it is not Jn 10:27 does that matter?
    I think reading @smvanroode it sounds like it doesn't matter that it's not on the "readings for the day" list.
    And yes, just a ferial day haha. I know right, this has happened a lot to me. I'm asked to do a lot of ordinary weekday masses. Where I'm moving to eventually will want me to do weekday masses every day of the year. I don't mind, I enjoy it. :) I don't like the searching though!

    @andrewmalton this guy asked for "the trad experience" but inside the "four hymn sanga."
  • Xav
    Posts: 23
    I see the source of the confusion now. smvanroode and Andrew Malton have hit the nail on the head. One may choose the Alleluia from the Graduale or the Gospel Acclamation from the Lectionary: both are perfectly correct options but, apart from the word, "alleluia," they do not correspond with each other.

    If Father really wants "chant," he wants the melismatic Alleluia from the 1974 Graduale, in this case Adorabo ad templum.

    If he thinks what he wants is chant but, for example, he isn't aware that there is such a thing as the Graduale (as, surprisingly, many well-meaning priests aren't), what he probably wants is the Gospel Acclamation from the Lectionary, in this case Jn. 10:27.

    There is, of course, a Latin edition of the Lectionary so there would be absolutely nothing wrong with singing the Gospel Acclamation in Latin but, of course, there is no Gregorian setting of that text.

    I don't own one so I haven't checked that the Latin of Jn. 10:27 as it appears in the Bible hasn't been edited into the Lectionary but I have taken the liberty of laying your text under the attached setting of the Gospel Acclamation that Dr. Percy Jones made ubiquitous in Australia for the novus ordo Mass in case you find it useful. You will recognise it as the Mode VI alleluia from the Easter Vigil with a simplified psalm tone. (But don't let M. Jackson Osborn know that you are doing a "dinky triple alleluia"!)
    Gospel Acclamation (Jones).doc
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    Thanked by 2Earl_Grey Jes
  • smvanroodesmvanroode
    Posts: 998
    The Latin phrase is correct!
    Thanked by 1Jes
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    The "Missale Romanum cum lectionibus" (volume 1) does list the various options for the alleluia verse, and the text above is one of them; so it is a legitimate alleluia verse from the Lectionary.

    Would it be acceptable to take the authentic Alleluia for the day, sing that, and insert the "Oves meas" verse on a compatible psalm tone (preferably harmonized)?
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen Jes
  • Earl_GreyEarl_Grey
    Posts: 904
    Anything is possible. I have seen the reverse done--a familiar congregational alleluia with a psalm tone verse but the text from the Graduale rather than the lectionary.
    Thanked by 1Jes
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    Anything is possible. I have seen the reverse done--a familiar congregational alleluia with a psalm tone verse but the text from the Graduale rather than the lectionary.


    That seems like the weirdest option.


    --
    FWIW, the Gregorian Alleluia, minus the Jubilus, is often (not always) easy enough to for a congregation to repeat.
    Thanked by 2Andrew_Malton Jes
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    We use (at the "High Mass" on Sundays and Holy Days) a Gregorian 'Alleluia' from PBC with the verse from the Graduale quasi-psalm-toned (an ornamental incipit formula from the proper versicle -- it's the Mode II -- and a concluding jubilus). At Weekdays the same Alleluia is used (minus the jubilus) with just the simple psalm-tone.

    Here is a modern-notation sampling of what we do. As you can see, it is adaptable to verses, in Latin or English, of any length.
    Versus Alleluiatici II.pdf
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    Thanked by 3Jes CHGiffen Richard Mix
  • JesJes
    Posts: 576
    After all of that, quite literally right at this hour in Aus it turns into feb 1 and I find out that they changed their mind and want Feb 2! Hahaha

    But thank you so much! I've learned heaps!!!!
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