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M. Jackson,

May I ask where this is written?

Advent IV, and Masses of the Blessed Virgin, are obviously an exception: Gradual "Benedicta es tu", Alleluia and Offertory "Ave Maria", Offertory "Tota Pulchra es", etc..

Also the Gradual ("Priusquam te formarem") and Alleluia ("Tu, puer") for the Nativity of St John.

Also the Communio for the feast of St Joseph, "Noli timere".

Hmm...

As far as I recall, even where others than the Godhead are addressed, if they are asked for anything then it is that they pray to God for us. In England&Wales there is an indult allowing invoking the BVM at the end of the Universal Prayers, though I have read that the CDW has asked our bishops to discourage the practice. Even in the EF, the celebrant would ask me to pray for him, though it can be argued that the prayers at the foot of the altar are before Mass.

Jackson,

You may well be right, but Pope Pius XII says (and I can't put my finger on it) that among the things which shouldn't be expected is uniform participation by everyone present. He even uses the example of some praying the rosary at Mass.

Furthermore (and, again, I'm willing to learn a nuanced answer from you, because you often make careful points) if you're correct, why are there so many good setting of the text Ave Maria that are not merely settings of a proper text?

The Everett Titcomb "Christ our Passover" is a marvelous piece, the English equivalent of "Pascha nostrum." It's not public domain but is available from SheetMusicPlus(*) and from J.W.Pepper. I've used it with great effectiveness in the past.

(*) Currently listed as unavailable.

Mr. Giffen... I can't find a recording of the Titcomb. Do you know of one?

Canadash, I don't know of any available recording. But I'll attach a synthesized sound file of the work, via Finale. If you need a copy of the score PM me with your email.

Chapter and verse, if you please.

Admittedly, I have no literary evidence to quote - though I don't doubt that it exists. I was told of this by a priest some years ago, and read somewhere of the bishops' concern over this matter. I've found several current bishops on the internet, from the US and Britain, who reinforce the views that I have reported on, and who stress the mind of the Church as exemplified in the forms for universal prayers in the Roman Missal.

I'll not pursue this further, nor comment on it further

Everett Titcomb's work is worth seeking out.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/3/14/1194153/-Thursday-Classical-Music-Op-C109-Everett-Titcomb

I've found several current bishops on the internet, from the US and Britain, who reinforce the views that I have reported on

You've found the bishops on the internet, but you're unable to cite them or list them, and now you're done posting about it.

Seems legit.

Well, as far as liturgical prayer is concerned, MJO is correct: after flipping through random Masses in MR3, (Altar Missal) there are no liturgical prayers to any Saint, save for the Litany of Saints at Easter: All of the collects, orations, Eucharistic prayers, etc, are addressed either to God the Father or God the Son, there are no exceptions. However, the Mediaeval liturgy was full of exceptions: and these are the Sequences -- and probably the reason why many of them were suppressed after Trent was because they addressed directly a given Saint, and not God, and therefore did not fit the criterion for liturgical prayer.

And, regarding the Sequence Stabat Mater, it was suppressed after Trent (it doesn't appear in the 1570 Missal), but was reinstated in the Masses of the Seven Dolours by Pope Benedict XIII in 1727 -- though it was removed from liturgical use, it was still used devotionally.

I'm glad that Mr Hawkins has started a separate thread for this topic. It is needed.

And, Salieri has done excellent home work. What he has discovered shouldn't be news to any Catholic, certainly not to any church musician. The question of who, what, when, and how we address and worship at or in the mass could not be made more clear than by becoming more familiar with the ritual text itself - which, I should think, would be pretty definitive. It would seem to me that what diverges from the content and import of the ritual text is self-evidently an objective imposition and a refutation of the text's integrity. The Church has not given us a text which, as Salieri notes, addresses any other than God. It remembers others, mentions them as in communion with us, but never utters the slightest invocation of any angels or saints - though it is plain that they are with us.

Salieri is also right about the seeming exception offered by sequences. (Speak of grasping at straws!) It is the nature of sequences that they tell a story, sometimes with dialogue, outline theological truths, and in times past often went overboard, far overboard, in their enthusiasm for some of their subjects. it is not for nothing that most of these were suppressed at Trent, and they make poor examples for modern usage.

Finally, to Matthew - for your information, one of the bishops I found on the internet who supported the views which I am merely passing on was Bishop Kieran Conry of Arundel and Brighton. He, too, takes the ritual text of the mass as a starting point, and particularly sees the exemplary universal prayers offered in the Roman Missal as being what the Church expects, and from which one should not depart.

I suggest that we all move any further commentary on this subject to the new thread started by Mr Hawkins. The pique which some have displayed here in this matter is unbecoming of the genuine academic discourse which should mark this forum's proceedings.

(And, as far as the penitential rite goes, yes, yes, we do ask each other and the saints to pray for us 'to the Lord our God'. This is a rather singular exception to the entirety of the ritual's language and thrust. One might suggest that it serves as the prayers at the foot of the altar in the old rite. Within the mass, language such as this is confined to the penitential rite. Properly understood, it is a cleansing which prepares us for the real work of speaking to and adoring the Godhead, and him alone as the ritual language and action unfolds.)

I have just updated the Isaac "Pascha nostrum" (S/ATTB and SATB) files.

I have added an alternate version onto the end of the SATB file, where the alto and tenor parts (actually written as equal voices, anyway) have been switched, here and there. This will hopefully make it more accessible for a regular choir (i.e. removing phrases with low F in alto, or high A in tenor).

For those with a nice organ, a brass consort, SATB choir, divisi sopranos, and a baritone soloist, there isn't a more splendidly festive (of 'recent' vintage) Easter offertory anthem than Willan's 'O sing unto the Lord a New Song'. This multi-sectioned, eight-or-so minute work ends with a gorgeous fugal four pages of 'alleluyas'.

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I just located a recording by the Notre Dame Lit Choir on youtube - sans the optional brass.