Getting reluctant choir members to commit to a weeknight rehearsal
  • ViolaViola
    Posts: 411
    So far I have failed to do this. The best singers seem to be in too many choirs already. The apathetic ones can't be bothered.
    I have just had a meeting with the parish priest who says choose a night and tell them if they don't come to the practice they can't sing on Sunday. i'm worried that there might be no one left. Has anyone else tried this? Did it work?
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    If the singers are over-scheduled, they could decide to drop your choir. Have you considered meeting with some of the best singers and outlining your problems. Ask them for advice and solutions. It's worth a try.
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  • ryandryand
    Posts: 1,640
    It worked here.

    I lost a few, but then gained a few more through some recruiting. The new members understood the policy from the beginning and are far more committed (and talented) than those who left.

    I do allow for absences if notice is given, and they show up on Sunday having learned the music (we rehearse both during the week and before Mass). But when people give 1hr notice and some stupid excuse (or no notice at all), they get to stand silently as the choir sings something that needed some rehearsal time to sing accurately.



    As I was about to implement this, I explained to the pastor what was going on. The culture in the music ministry was very loosey-goosey when I arrived. People would show up whenever they wanted. Sometimes skipping rehearsals, or just not showing up to Mass. Some would show up every few weeks, whenever was convenient for them, and expect to sing while having never seen any of the music before.

    When I said to him, "It's disrespectful towards those members who are committed," he replied:

    "It's also disrespectful towards the Lord."

  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,782
    Provide dinner and wine after the rehearsal...
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  • Some would show up every few weeks, whenever was convenient for them, and expect to sing while having never seen any of the music before.


    This was my problem when I was a DM. However, if I had denied them even once, they would have dropped the choir. It probably wouldn't have been a bad thing, since you really don't want people in the group who aren't reliable, but when you've only got 5 to begin with, and 3 of them exhibit this behavior, it's really worth looking at disbanding the group and forming a new one.
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  • Liam
    Posts: 5,093
    Usually, church choir rehearsal nights are Thursday or Wednesday - a given area will tend to stick to one of those, to prevent overlap with non-church choral groups (the rehearsal days for which tend to be Monday or Tuesday).

    That said, given my daily schedule, needing to be up by 4AM and therefore needing to be home in the evening on "school nights" by 8PM, wild horses couldn't get me to join any choir that has a rehearsal on such nights so long as my schedule is such, which is for the foreseeable future. So, after more than a generation of singing in church choirs, I support congregational singing by being in what I call the retrochoir in the pews.

    You will very likely lose choristers - and perhaps some of your best ones - by choosing to rehearse on weeknights. That doesn't mean it's not worth doing. It merely means you might have to significantly modify your programming.

    It's all about triage.

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  • Do you have a fall-back position if you do get no-one on eligible to sing on a Sunday?

    Have you investigated suitable weeknights and times with the singers you want to keep (those who are good enough and reliable enough).

    Remember that you likely have very little knowledge about people's lives, and why they have difficulty committing. Many of the most difficult situations will not be shared with the likes of a choir director.
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  • Liam
    Posts: 5,093
    "Many of the most difficult situations will not be shared with the likes of a choir director."

    For The Win. Even many prosaic situations won't be shared.
  • bhcordovabhcordova
    Posts: 1,164
    I've had the DM invite me to come up and sing with the rest of the choir, even when I've come to Mass after rehearsal times. But then, the DM was desparately seeking anyone to sing at some of the Masses
  • ViolaViola
    Posts: 411
    Thanks for comments so far, I liked the one about the wine. At the mo we provide a cup of tea on the rare occasions when we do schedule a practice, (this is the UK) but wine might work better.
    Sounds like a poll would be a good idea to find out what is the best night,
    Someone commented to me lately on 'the curse of the volunteer'. People seem to feel they are doing the church a service by turning up when they feel like it, rather than seeing it as a privilege to serve the Lord by singing in the choir.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,093
    I should note that, when I mentioned days of the week, I was reflecting common practice in major urban areas of the northeastern USA that I am aware are also not uncommon in other parts of the USA. Not sure what common practice in the UK would be in that regard. The idea is that many church choristers also sing in other groups (secular choirs or other performance groups), so the practice reduces cannibalization, as it were.
  • MarkS
    Posts: 282
    I'm not sure if my comments are germaine, but I will offer

    A) In many local churches (here I may be speaking largely of Episcopal/Protestant churches, but this also holds true for a handful of Catholic churches in my area) the weekly rehearsal has been in place from time immemorial, and it is understood that joining the choir means committing to a weekly rehearsal. And I think a weekly rehearsal is essential (in addition to a good warm up and mini-rehearsal before the service)! Our group rehearses each of our 'major' weekly Sunday pieces (anthem, motet, etc..) for a minimum of four weeks, and rehearsal aids are available via our choir page on the church website so that my amateurs can review and prepare between rehearsals. For this reason, I can be flexible when folks need to miss an occasional rehearsal—they have had ample time with the music.

    B) I think the specific problem of establishing weekly rehearsals (yes, please—do it!) should be viewed in the bigger context of building the choir program. Maybe that's a different thread. But (and I mean no offense, for I know the realities out there) a choir with a handful of members that gets together to rehearse things once before Sunday mornings, or even once a week, is probably not a choir that the local experienced, able singers would be interested in singing in. If you can create something that people will want to be a part of, weekly rehearsals and all else will fall into place.

    I'm not saying it's easy, and it will take a commitment over time to establish. But dream big and go for it! Develop a vision and communicate it throughout the parish and community, using whatever and all media at your disposal. Get involved with the local secular choir groups, summer 'sings', possibly theatre groups if you do that sort of thing—i. e., go where the singers are, and get to know them! Establish yourself as a known local musical quantity (i. e. accompany every soloist or group in your area who asks you.) And above all, be GOOD! Learn from everyone and make sure that you are offering everyone (your singers, clergy, congregation, the Almighty) the very best product you can deliver!

    In any event, good luck!
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,093
    And, for strong singers who cannot commit to weeknight rehearsals, encourage them to support congregational singing about 1/2 to 2/3 of the way from the apse to the entrance....
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,782
    Our choir rehearsal is on Thursday, this does cause problems with the number of Feasts that fall on Thursday (We sing evening Masses in London on Feasts).

    We chose Thursday as it was a free day,
    Monday, Sung evening Mass.
    Tuesday, N.O. choir rehearsal.
    Wednesday, Sung evening Mass.
    Friday, evening Masses at various places nearby most Fridays.

    N.B. The Sung evening Masses are not at our own parish!

    With the distances everyone is coming from, usually straight from work, it is only fair that we have dinner provided. Choir rehearsals are at my house but occasionally move to other members houses, tea /cold drinks are provided when people arrive we then have a 1 ½ hour choir rehearsal and then sit down for dinner. This term we have worked our way across Switzerland to the Alsace and on to Toul, having a different Pinot Noir each evening!
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  • JonLaird
    Posts: 245
    I second the importance of food and fellowship/camaraderie as important elements in getting and keeping a choir together. Although, in suburban Virginia, most of my choristers' tastes are less sophisticated than tomjaw's choir...

    For the adults, I do not have a strict attendance policy. However, all choristers understand that if for any reason I judge they are not prepared to sing for Mass, they sit out for that Mass or for whatever portion I judge they are not prepared for. There a couple choristers who miss more than 50% of the rehearsals but are very diligent with home rehearsal and dedicated to the liturgy, and so they stay in the choir, though they may not be prepared to sing everything -- so they bite the bullet and accept my judgment on the matter.

    I make a point of not begging or bribing or "guilting" anyone to be in the choir. If they are super-talented but for one reason or another just don't feel like doing it, I will leave them to their own discernment on the matter and not attempt to change their mind -- as I would prefer to be treated if I were in their shoes. Otherwise I'm constantly fearful of losing people if I don't do things the way they want them done. The result is a small but very hardworking, dedicated, and humble group of people who come together for this sublime purpose, who love music and love the liturgy -- and indeed love one another, and look out for one another.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    I have days when my choir sings beautifully - must be the Holy Spirit at work. I have days when directing that choir is like watching a train wreck but being powerless to stop it. There are a few "tricks" that have helped in rehearsing folks who can't easily make it to every Wednesday rehearsal. I scan scores and send them by e-mail, and have choristers who live near the sometimes missing drop in and help them with the scores. I also stay over after the Sunday choir mass and rehearse with singers I know can't make rehearsals. Like most these days, I do what I have to do.
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  • Don9of11Don9of11
    Posts: 708
    What is the age of the choir (average)? How many do you have of each voice? Why do think they are reluctant to come to practice? Why are they singing in other choirs and not yours? Based on your original opening post you've only got a few choir member's singing, is that correct? Is that number 8 or more? Have you considered creating a small schola and dropping the choir altogether? There are a lot of unknowns so it's hard to say what to do.

    I'm a choir member in my parish choir, the last man standing, the last tenor. No baritones, a few altos, and a handful of sopranos. All of the choir member's (women) are 10 to 15 years older than I am. We sre quite a bunch though and we sound pretty good, not bad for bunch of old crows, no pun intended. We all have health issues of one kind or another and unfortunately I've had my own health issues lately. Some of them are afraid to be out late at night anymore. My vocation to the choir is wayning, my voice is plumb tuckered out, though my spirit is willing, the rest of me...well.

    I miss the good old days and those men and women who've passed on, good friends one and all. There are alot reason why they might be reluctant even apathetic. As for me, I'll keep going until they tell me I can't or until I find myself unable to go. Hopefully that's not for a long time yet.

    Singing in the choir is a vocation, it's hard work and it requires a lot of commitment, patience, love of neighbor, laughter, and a tear now and then. I don't think I have offered any help to your problem in fact I probably got off topic.
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  • ViolaViola
    Posts: 411
    Don9of11:
    Choir numbers 17 in theory; usually on a Sunday we get about 12 as we did today. Ability range is wide too. We have 4 tenors, one is inaudible, one pretty good, one a choral scholar, one not bad but doesn't read music. Only one elderly bass but he is ex King's Cambridge and would be happy to attend week night rehearsals even tho he can sight read needless to say. I'm surprised but grateful that he comes at all.Three, occasionally four altos, not bad tho one is our oldest member so rather quavery. The rest are sopranos ranging from good to not very.
    Their ages range from mid 70s down to 20ish. I'd say most are 40/50 ish. We have 4 choral scholars, full-time students who, because of the contract in existence when I took over, are not required to attend weekday nights anyway.

    There are plenty of good choirs in the area, giving the opportunity to sing things like 'Elijah,' Brahms Requiem, madrigals, Gilbert and Sullivan, musical theatre, barbershop etc etc, though only our better singers aspire to this. In fairness some have to travel because of work etc, but there does seem to be a culture of turning up and expecting to sing irrespective of whether they've been to any rehearsals or not. Most don't see it as a vocation, rather that they are doing the church a favour by being there at all.

    My solution such as it is, is to attempt only very undemanding music. That means they sound ok, but they think they are doing well. We could do so much better!
    But there are probably lots of choirs like this out there!
    I'm going to run a poll after Christmas to find the night that suits most (or maybe that suits the best ones) and go with that.
  • >> The result is a small but very hardworking, dedicated, and humble group of people who come together for this sublime purpose, who love music and love the liturgy -- and indeed love one another, and look out for one another.
    I know, ain't it great! Am counting my blessings this Christmas. :-)
    Thanked by 1JonLaird
  • Don9of11Don9of11
    Posts: 708
    Sounds like a good plan Viola. I know how important it is to have every one at practice. Our small group of singers will be singing Psallite by M. Praetorius this Christmas. The psalm will be Today is born our savior by J. Chepponis. , we have other selections we are doing before Mass as well. We have another tenor joining us who is not from the parish but a friend of the Music Director as well as another Alto. We will have 8 if we are lucky.

    I think in addition to your poll I would put all your cards on the table, shake the vine so to speak and let them know how you feel and what your pastor has said or perhaps he should stand with you. Anyway, the best of luck to you, will keep you in prayer.
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  • ViolaViola
    Posts: 411
    Thank you everyone for your comments and for prayers; will get going on this after new Year.
    Best wishes to all with your Christmas programmes.