Good (interesting, notable) liturgy in Pittsburgh
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    Will be in Pittsburgh, PA this weekend, with a totally free Sunday.

    Anything great? Latin, High Anglican, or Eastern. (I can probably go to more than one thing.)

    I will be downtown.
  • Blaise
    Posts: 439
    While you are there, you may want to check out St. John the Baptist Byzantine Catholic Cathedral for me. It has weekend Divine Liturgy at 5 pm on Saturday and 9 am on Sunday. It is located in Munhall.
    Thanked by 2CharlesW BruceL
  • JL
    Posts: 171
    The Pittsburgh Oratory in Oakland is not fancy, but has a fine ars celebrandi going on, and excellent preaching (and Bl. Newman's cassock just outside the chapel.) Another fine Byzantine liturgy (in English) is to be found at Holy Spirit on Fifth Ave., a which is also worth checking out for its cool space-age mosaics on the facade. If you're downtown you're close to the Episcopal cathedral, whose liturgy I have never experienced but is probably worth checking out. I'm not sure what's happening in the RC cathedral these days (St. Paul's in Oakland, also on Fifth), but it has an excellent organ that's worth hearing.
    Thanked by 2Ben Blaise
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,700
    Plus the RC Cathedral is gorgeous.
    Thanked by 2canadash JL
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,315
    St. Boniface has a TLM and is beautiful.
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,700
    If the pews of the Pittsburgh Cathedral ever go missing, don't look wherever I'm working. They weren't stolen and installed there.
    Thanked by 1JL
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,315
    Pews? What are those?
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    Pews? Is outrage!
    Thanked by 2Jahaza RMSawicki
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,315
    They weren’t in nineteenth century Russia!
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • JL
    Posts: 171
    All the Pittsburgh Byzantine churches I have seen have pews (and kneelers.) They just don't see much sitting. Of course, the local Archeparchy is Ukrainian, so perhaps 19th-century Russia is outrage in the 'Burgh.
  • Blaise
    Posts: 439
    I don't know about the Ukrainian Catholics in Pennsylvania, but the cathedral I am referring to above is Ruthenian. I know this because the Byzantine Catholic community I am with in San Antonio is under its jurisdiction.


  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    It's interesting from place to place how the "pew" thing works out. The Pittsburgh church, to which I belong, has pews in our local temple. The local Ukrainian Catholic church does not. Many regard pews as latinizations, but I think the Protestants were more responsible for pews. Where they exist in eastern churches is sometimes the result of having bought Protestant buildings and keeping the pews that were already there.
  • BruceL
    Posts: 1,072
    With respect, the Pittsburgh Anglican cathedral has never been the best Episcopalian church in town for music (if that's what you're looking for). That honor would go to Calvary in East Liberty. It's just a brief jaunt down the road from St. Paul (the RC cathedral).
  • JL
    Posts: 171
    The Pittsburgh Episcopal diocese has had some significant upheaval in the past 10 years, effectively splitting the jurisdiction in half (in terms of clergy, parishioners, and buildings), which I suspect has taken its toll on parish music programs, among others.
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    "The Pittsburgh diocese is closing in on the parishioner-input phase of a comprehensive planning initiative called “On Mission for the Church Alive!,”

    [...]

    The number of active Catholics within the Pittsburgh diocese has declined rapidly in recent decades, from 914,000 in 1980 to 632,000 in 2015, diocesan figures show."

    That, folks, is called modernism, and I'm not sure a poll will help.
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,093
    That is not only called modernism, folks: it's also called what happens when big industry departs an area, as Big Steel did in the 1980s. Pittsburgh's city population has declined 28% in that period; figures for the diocese and MSA and CSA vary, but there's also been a significant shift in the demographic mix.
    Thanked by 1BruceL
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    It's modernism, secularism, economic decline, and another factor that gets swept under the rug. Church leadership that embraces every error in the name of compassion, yet stands for little or nothing. I have mentioned before playing for funerals of long-time Catholics. All the children are there, as you would expect. Hardly any receive communion because they have left the church. Many of those now grown kids don't even seem to know what is happening at mass. Big problems, and I don't see any leaders in the wings who have a clue as to how to reverse this. So yeah, spend money on another survey, get together a focus group, hire a facilitator, and watch as the whole thing goes to hell.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,093
    Charles

    Church leadership also had other problems, like covering certain things up.
    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    Agreed, Liam. It does amaze me, however, that many of our leaders think they are supposed to be entertainers and the sanctuary is a stage - most of them would starve if they had to do comedy for a living. Some think they are supposed to embrace the latest warm and fuzzy social science theories that come down the road. And to be fair, the more competent social scientists don't promote nonsense. I don't even want to get into the rampant political correctness. What is missing is something the priests realized two thousand years ago. They are supposed to preach the unvarnished Gospel of Jesus Christ. It works, it is old but ever new, and the need for it is greater than ever.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,093
    Charles

    You're laying it on too thick on social justice as a universal evil widget, and that itself is quite tired.

    I am on record as noting to people across the spectrum that that Gospel is a call to theosis, not mere moralism, and that reducing the Gospel to moralism - be it of a Social Gospel type OR of a Purity-Docility type, et cet. - does not fully honor the call to discipleship. In that vein, however, the itchy tick people have when they get riled by calls to social justice is of a piece with the itchy tick people have when they get annoyed by calls to avoid sexual sins.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    Yes, contemporary sins are not contemporary. They have always been present. The Gospel is more than moralism. Unfortunately, social justice has been hijacked by those who are neither social nor just. Following Biblical teachings means caring and providing for those in need and protecting the weakest in society. It doesn't, however, mean pandering to them. It also means proclaiming the truth to both weak and strong, wealthy and poor.
  • BruceL
    Posts: 1,072
    That is not only called modernism, folks: it's also called what happens when big industry departs an area, as Big Steel did in the 1980s. Pittsburgh's city population has declined 28% in that period; figures for the diocese and MSA and CSA vary, but there's also been a significant shift in the demographic mix.


    For sure. My mom's side is all from Pittsburgh, though, from a nominally Catholic family (I always identified more strongly with my paternal side, who were Anabaptists). My brother and I are both converts, both professional musicians working for the Catholic Church. We are THE ONLY of our generation (numbering 16 plus cousins) that practice the Faith. Among my friends, mostly from that part of the country, this is not at all uncommon.

    Like most Northeastern bastions of Catholicism, Pittsburgh is now paying the debts of a system that didn't really make Catholics...
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    This much I do know. I like Pittsburgh and think the people are great. Very down-to-earth and friendly. At least, that's my experience.
  • JL
    Posts: 171
    They have my favorite public library too. The main branch has a life-size statue of a diplodocus in front. And if you don't eat any pierogi during your visit, you weren't really there. :)
    Thanked by 2CharlesW CHGiffen
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    I've decided to check out St. John Chrysostom Byzantine Catholic Church.

    This was Andy Warhol's childhood parish.