• a1437053a1437053
    Posts: 198
    Do Weekday Propers exist? Are Propers sung during Weekdays?

    If so, where does one look?

    Thanks!
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 8,418
    If it's a Mass according to the season, then the Sunday propers carry over to the weekdays. When the Mass is an observance for a saint or a feast of the Lord, then there are corresponding propers. The Graduale Romanum has them for the new calendar; the Liber Usualis for the old calendar.
    Thanked by 1GregoryWeber
  • dvalerio
    Posts: 341
    In the Ordinary Form of the Roman Rite, yes, they do.

    At a Low Mass, the propers are given in the Missale (Entrance antiphon and Communion antiphon; there is no Offertory) and in the lectionary (responsorial psalm and Alleluia, the latter replaced by another Gospel Acclamation during Lent).

    At a Sung Mass, the propers are given in the Graduale. Most of the time (save during Lent) they repeat the propers of the previous Sunday, but there are often one or two propers that change.

    I am preparing an Excel file with a full index (under table form) of the current Graduale Romanum. It is still far from being complete. I am including for each chant the page number where it can be found in the 1961 Graduale Romanum (for the Extraordinary Form). I am attaching the current version (Advent to Holy Week, plus the two first weeks of Ordinary Time) to this comment. I will be glad for any mistakes found (including Latin mistakes).
    Thanked by 1GregoryWeber
  • dvalerio
    Posts: 341
    Sorry, I am not allowed to upload an Excel file, and .zip and .rar files seem not to work (and now I cannot delete them from my previous comment!). :( I should read more carefully posts on file upload problems... Let's see this time if a .pdf file works properly... If it doesn't I give up!...
  • miacoyne
    Posts: 1,805
    Are there music for normal weekday (not feast days) Propers (not seasonal)? The daily mass goers in our parish read entrance and commnion propers diligently everyday from the missallete. I'm afraid If our schola sings something different from those proper antiphones, they will be pretty lost. (whether it's latin or English)
  • dvalerio
    Posts: 341
    > Are there music for normal weekday (not feast days) Propers (not seasonal)?
    Yes, see my post above...
  • miacoyne
    Posts: 1,805
    Thanks, dvalerio. This is a lot of work. Does your schola sing on weekdays too?
  • Dvalerio:

    Do you have the 1972 ORDO CANTUS MISSAE? It would make your task considerably easier.
  • dvalerio
    Posts: 341
    > Does your schola sing on weekdays too?
    No, it's just for the sake of completeness.

    > Do you have the 1972 ORDO CANTUS MISSAE? It would make your task considerably easier.
    I know it would but unfortunately no I don't.
  • a1437053a1437053
    Posts: 198
    Just to make sure I get this right, a sample:

    Introit for Today, January 27, 2009:
    "Dominus secus mare" (from Sunday's Introit B, 3rd Sunday in OT)

    Reason for question is for non-feast school Masses during the week.

    José
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 8,418
    Yes; Jan 27 is also an optional memorial of St Angela Merici, who, come to think of it, is relevant for schools, as she founded the Ursuline order. If the priest were to choose the texts for that Mass, it would be fitting to choose the chants for her day (listed on p. 538 of the 1979 Gradual); the introit would be "Dilexisti iustitiam".
  • dvalerio
    Posts: 341
    I beg your pardon if I am wrong, but the introit for January 27, 2009 is rather «Adorate Deum omnes angeli eius». This is because the Graduale Romanum gives this introit for «Hebdomada tertia» (third week), and then provides introit «Dominus secus mare» for «Dom. annis A et B» (Sunday in years A and B). But «Dominus secus mare» is an exception for Sunday, if it be year A or year B; during weekdays no exception is provided...

    I am uploading the Ordinary Time table updated to include the 3rd week also (still 31 to go). I hope this makes it clearer. Notice that the communion for January 27, 2009 is «Quicumque fecerit»; and that no communion is given for January 28, 2009, and so the default «Mirabantur omnes» is used---but this communion is never sung at Sunday, since it is overriden in all years (A, B and C).

    Again, the Gradual and the Alleluia for January 27, 2009 are «Iuravit Dominus» (the Gradual is missing from the 1961 Graduale Romanum, but is found in the original 1908 edition), replacing the defaults for the entire third week, which were used last Sunday since no overriding chants were assigned.

    (Of course, as mentioned above, you could celebrate S. Angela Merici on January 27, and S. Thomas Aquinas on January 28. But that's another story. Above I stuck to ferias.)
  • a1437053a1437053
    Posts: 198
    Wow! dvalerio, you know your Graduale! Earlier, I had used the Gregorian Missal, which is not as detailed. Looking at the Graduale, I see the ferial and Sunday options (the Missal focuses on Sundays only).

    Your response is very detailed, thank you. I hope you don't mind if I e-mail you to run dates by you.
  • dvalerio
    Posts: 341
    > I hope you don't mind if I e-mail you
    Be my guest, though I'm not an infallible source...
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 9,073
    dvalerio

    I NEED the musical weekday propers if they exist... I cannot find them on this forum as you mentioned. Our Bishop is coming next Wednesday, so I REALLY need the propers for next Wednesday if possible. Can you help?

    Is there an online resource for such a thing?
  • dvalerio
    Posts: 341
    > Can you help?

    I hope so. Here are the chants from the 1974 Graduale, together with the pages where you may find them in books available online at musicasacra.com:
    March 10, 2010 - Wednesday of Week III in Lent
    Introit - Meditatio cordis mei (p. 148 of the 1961 Graduale, assigned there to another day; further verses in p. 32 of the 1962 Versus psalmorum, ending on a)
    Gradual - Miserere mihi Domine (p. 133 of the 1961 Graduale)
    (There is no Tract.)
    Offertory - Domine, fac mecum misericordiam tuam (p. 133 of the 1961 Graduale; verses in p. 37 of the 1935 Offertoriale)
    Communion - Notas mihi fecisti (p. 134 of the 1961 Graduale; verses in Communio)
    Notice that, save for the Communion, all other propers differ from those in the Missale Romanum and the Lectionary.

    > Is there an online resource for such a thing?

    I'm afraid there isn't (if someone knows of one such thing please let me know).

    Update - I did prepare a table, incomplete as yet, which you may find in this thread.
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 9,073
    Thnx dvalerio:

    I think I failed to mention English.

    I have them in the daily weekday missal (book) but not set to chant. Will have to do some typesetting I guess.
  • dvalerio
    Posts: 341
    > I think I failed to mention English.

    Well, I would like to be able to say that you just had to check Palmer & Burgess or the American Gradual or Arbogast or whatever to obtain English adaptations of the chants, but all those authors quite understandably confine themselves to Sundays and feasts that have precedence over Sundays. Well, there are always psalm-tones and faux-bourdons, but perhaps that's not what you had in mind...
    Thanked by 1GregoryWeber
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 9,073
    I will probably create a similar setting to what we have been using on Sundays-the AUG
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 9,073
    Actually, one of the Propers was lifted from the old calendar, and also occurs on a Sunday, so that one is already set. Thanks again for your time.
  • dvalerio -

    Have you updated that chart? I need to sing a Mass according to the 1974 Graduale on Thursday, 6 May. I notice that your chart stops on the third week of Easter; perhaps you have since gotten through the fifth?
  • dvalerio
    Posts: 341
    Sorry, not yet! :( But if nobody does that before, I'll post here what the chants for that weekday are when I get home.
  • dvalerio
    Posts: 341
    Thursday of Easter Week V

    Intr. - Cantate Domino canticum novum
    All. - Confitemini Domino et invocate
    Off. - Iubilate Deo universa terra
    Comm. - Ego sum vitis vera

    You'll find the Introit, the Alleluia and the Offertory in the 1961 Graduale; there are additional verses for the Introit in the 1962 Versus Psalmorum et Canticorum; you have Offertory verses in Ott's Offertoriale (unlikely to be useful, but who knows...); and you have the Communion with verses in CMAA's Communio.
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 9,073
    Did anyone ever find or create chanted arrangements of the weekday propers in English? If not, I am going to start chanting them for Feasts starting this month and will probably set them to Psalm Tones. Thoughts, suggestions, warnings?
  • Maureen
    Posts: 662
    The weekday propers are still carry-overs from the Sunday propers, at least in the OF. But now we have an OF propers list.

    Or are you asking whether we have a complete table of feasts for the OF, with what Commons of X or Y they go to? 'Cause we probably do need that, at some point.
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 9,073
    I am talking about the daily propers that don't carry over for Sunday. If you look in the daily missal, you will see the proper for each day.
  • Maureen
    Posts: 662
    Upon closer examination of my St. Joseph daily missal:

    In Ordinary Time, the Introit and Communion propers listed for every week are the same as the ones for the Sunday of that week. (One may presume the Offertory also the same.) The Alleluia verse that's in the readings changes every day, as does the responsorial psalm. (I don't know what the correct gradual would be; it's not listed.)

    In Advent and Lent and Easter, the daily missal does indeed list propers for every weekday which are each different from the Sunday ones. Which goes along with how they did ferias (weekdays) back in my mom's olden missal. Ah, we are going to be busy, busy, busy....

    But even so, for feasts, the individual saint or common of that kind of saint would still be more appropriate than a plain Jane feria proper, surely? (Unless this is a matter of parish diplomacy or executive decision.)

    Well, I don't know anything about it, so good luck whatever you do.
  • Maureen
    Posts: 662
    Aha! The Gregorian Missal is really The Gregorian Missal for Sunday. It even says in the foreword that the weekday chants aren't there, and that you should look in the Graduale Romanum for them! So there we are.
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 9,073
    Thanks, Maureen. I gotta look more closely to my daily. I have a 1974. I composed chants for Our Lady of Sorrows and St. Matthew which are no where to be found (yet). Will post soon.

    I have GOT to buy the GR!
  • eft94530eft94530
    Posts: 1,574
    francis: I have GOT to buy the GR!

    If you have limited funds, I would splurge and purchase the Triplex.
    Graduale Romanum (GR) was published 1974;
    the Graduale Triplex (GT) was published 1979, layout identical to GR,
    but has the added material of manuscript-family markings from the 900s over-lay the square-notes,
    one above (black Laon MS), one below (red St Gall MS).

    You will also find some of these CMAA Discussions more understandable.
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 9,073
    Thnx eft.

    Here are the propers I composed.