Correspondence between Roman Rite and Anglican Lessons
  • madorganist
    Posts: 481
    Does anyone know of a table comparing the epistles and gospels for the Sundays after Pentecost/Trinity between the Roman Missal (EF) and the Book of Common Prayer? The lessons generally seem to be one or two Sundays out of sync. For instance, this coming Sunday, the Ninth Sunday after Pentecost and the Eighth after Trinity, the BCP has the epistle that the Roman rite had last Sunday, and the gospel that we had two Sundays ago. I'm wondering if this information has already be compiled by someone. If not, I might do it myself and report back if anyone is interested.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 1,224
    BCP tends to take the Sarum arrangement, I believe.
  • PLTT
    Posts: 74
    One simple way might be to consult a later edition of the English Missal, or a similar publication [unfortunately, I don't have access to mine at the moment, or I'd have posted some pictures/scans]. They present the Sundays after Pentecost and the Sundays after Trinity, with both the MR and the BCP readings and Propers (such as existed in the BCP)
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,282
    Which BCP?
    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • madorganist
    Posts: 481
    1662, but unless I'm mistaken, the Sunday lectionary would be common to all subsequent editions using the designation of Sundays "after Trinity." Incidentally, my purpose is to correlate suggested hymns from The English Hymnal for Low Masses. Other resources for EF English hymn recommendations are most welcome, but I suspect these are few and far between! Perhaps not the best custom, but here were usually sing one or two stanzas as an entrance hymn and then the remaining stanzas of the same hymn at the offertory. Our hymnal contains a mere 26 "general" hymns, only half of which are really usable for our purposes!

    DISCLAIMER: Please, for the love of St. Cecilia, do not suggest "doing the propers" instead! This is an EF Low Mass. There is no choir, no schola, no soloist, only organ(ist) and congregation. We channel the musical resources of our parish to the High Mass, where they belong and are appreciated. We also have an earlier Low Mass without music for those who don't want to be exposed to vernacular hymns (or organ music, congregational singing, active participation, etc.).
    Thanked by 2chonak CHGiffen
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 1,723
    The current BCP (I think) follows the sequence of the OF: look at the table here to see what's so unusual about the Sundays after Pentecost.

    There are of course other changes in the Gospel readings to accommodate the three year cycle; I've done my best to summarize on the linked category pages at CPDL.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,282
    The current BCP (I think) follows the sequence of the OF

    Sidenote from the OP's question, but...

    This isn't really true.

    The CofE has no "current" BCP - the official one is still 1662, and the contemporary prayer book is "Common Worship." I *think* they use the Revised Common Lectionary.

    The Episcopal Church's 1979 BCP lectionary is pretty close to the Roman OF, but that doesn't matter because it is no longer the official lectionary. TEC uses the Revised Common Lectionary (in fact, new printings of the BCP 1979 contain the RCL readings).

    Revised Common Lectionary is very similar to OF lectionary during "the Seasons," but is pretty wildly divergent during the season after Pentecost.

    ---

    As to the OP's question, I have no additional information to add, except...

    WHY NOT JUST DO THE PROPERS?!
    Thanked by 2madorganist CHGiffen
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,300
    Is snarkiness /
    diminished if the words used /
    have been purpurated?
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,282

    > OP said "don't say 'do the propers'"
    > Well-known goofball responds with "Do the propers."

    I think my intentions were pretty clear.
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 1,723
    Thanks, Adam.
    It's more complicated than I realized: Common Worship appeared in 2000. My bookshelf has a 1977 BCP, but I now notice "proposed" in small print above the title page; this was a draft of the 1979 BCP. But I perhaps shouldn't have confused these with the Lectionary anyway.

    Btw, "TEC"?

    Madorganist, can you explain what differences you're seeing in more detail?
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,282
    TEC

    TEC is The Episcopal Church - the now-official acronym for what used to be PECUSA - "The Protestant Episcopal Church of the United States of America" - that is, what we all usually think of when we hear "Episcopalians" - the church based in NY and DC whose Presiding Bishop is currently Michael Curry.

    The 1977 Proposed BCP you have is MOSTLY the same as the current one. IIRC, only the lectionary has been swapped out.

    But I perhaps shouldn't have confused these with the Lectionary anyway.


    BCPs include the lectionary. (In fact, editions previous to the adoption of a three-year cycle actually had the texts of the pericopes in the book. The original Anglican Prayerbook ethos was: YOU ONLY NEED THIS ONE BOOK, PERIOD. -- That is no longer the case.)
    Thanked by 1Richard Mix
  • madorganist
    Posts: 481
    Richard, there seems to be a discrepancy of one week for the assigned gospels and two weeks for the epistles for most of the Sundays after Pentecost/Trinity between the BCP and the Roman Rite. I'll compare and put together a spreadsheet, probably tonight or tomorrrow, and share for those who are interested. It shouldn't take but an hour or so.
  • madorganist
    Posts: 481
    Here's what I discovered: from the fourth through twenty-third Sundays after Pentecost, the collects and gospels of the Roman Missal occur two weeks later in the BCP, and the epistles occur one week later. The sole exception is the epistle for the fifteenth Sunday, which is replaced by Galatians 6:11-18 in the Prayer Book, but note that the Sarum Missal has Galatians 5:25-26 & 6:1-10, just as in the Roman one week earlier.
    Thanked by 1Richard Mix
  • madorganist
    Posts: 481
    Also, the attached file might also be of interest. It includes more or less any of the Masses that are in the Liber usualis, plus Lenten weekdays.
    Thanked by 1Richard Mix
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 1,224
    I don’t really understand the article, for once. But there is some logic to it. http://liturgicalnotes.blogspot.ae/2016/07/after-trinity-after-pentecost-per-annum.html?m=1
    Thanked by 1madorganist
  • Not all Episcopal churches use the RCL, many more traditional parishes have permission to use the superior (in my opinion) BCP lectionary.
  • Blaise
    Posts: 413
    I have nothing to contribute to this particular topic, and I have not been on MusicSacra for a while, but I am glad that there is finally an "Anglican Use and Anglican Chant" topic header.
    Thanked by 1chonak
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 1,723
    To my mind they're still two different topics.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 7,527
    At present there are only 29 posts on both topics together.
  • Ben YankeBen Yanke
    Posts: 3,113
    Separate but related
    Thanked by 1Blaise
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 1,723
    One can almost always find some relationship between things. 'Anglican' chant is a musical genre I learned to appreciate in Lutheran services, and under names like Guimont 'Psalm tones' or falso bordone it is a mainstay of Catholic worship at St David's. I recently posted an example as a "New Composition" just because the old category is no longer available.
  • JesJes
    Posts: 487
    Hmm, ordinariate guys are generally good at helping out with this. Ask someone from the ordinariate they will be more than willing to help I'd gather. Certainly the VIC Aus ones are really lovely.