Fixed 'Do', Movable 'Do' and the Pitch name
  • miacoyne
    Posts: 1,805
    In slofege we definitely use 'movable Do system'. I'm just curious where the 'fixed Do system' came out. I think some European countries still use it. When I was a kid I learned fixed do system (in Korea. In our country we had to memorize all the songs in solfege vigorously, but with fixed do system). This somewhat gives me a trouble when I transpose music. I did solfege in college with movable do and changed it, but I still sometimes hear the pitch A as 'la'. Things you learn when you are young seem to stay with you for a long time. Then I also hear some of my schola say Do is C,( or C is Do). I had to emphasize to them that I can start Do or Re on any pitch, whatever is comfortible for our singing range it can be changed. Some of them are still not convinced.
    I'm sure when Guido D'Arezzo sang solfege he didn't use fixed do system. He would have sung his 'Ut' on different pitches on different days (depends on his mood or weather ;) (or he had a perfect pitch and sang 'U't on the same pitch all the time?) I wonder how the Fixed Do system came out and spread to some countries? (maybe I learned it in music history class, and I missed it or forgot.) Do anyone remember or know about this?
  • JamJam
    Posts: 636
    I wonder if perhaps the fixed do system could be an attempt to teach people perfect pitch?
  • mjballoumjballou
    Posts: 993
    I did movable "doh" in elementary school in New York, fixed "doh" with my major instrument teachers who were Europeans, and I honestly can't remember what we did in sight-singing at the conservatory. And yes, it does leave one permanently confused - not to mention having been trained to use "si" instead of "ti." My goal is to settle it once and for all by daily solfege on chant (prescribed by Dr. AOZ).
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,368
    Movable doh is the norm in English and German-speaking countries (and possibly some others), where keys are named after the letter names. In France & southern Europe fixed doh is the norm, and keys are named after the respective solfege syllables. Both of these systems are conventions which, I believe, date only to the mid XIX. century. Guido's ut was moveable.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • priorstf
    Posts: 460
    MJO - Do you know when the A=440 convention became standard? I realize the value differs in a number of countries (which can cause trouble for tenors!) but it's still pretty close. Was there a "gold standard" tuning fork that traveled the world prior to electronic gadgetry?
  • David AndrewDavid Andrew
    Posts: 1,204
    A=440 became convention only very recently (1936 in the US and universally in 1939) according to the information at this site:

    www.uk-piano.org/history/pitch.html

    Some interesting info here, including what numbers different orchestras, organs and even individual composer's pianos were being tuned to.

    Fun stuff, and a nice distraction on a Friday that's proving to be running in Ol' Scratch's favor right now. . .
  • Michael O'Connor
    Posts: 1,637
    Yes, 440 became the norm in the 1930s, but it had become de facto norm decades before. Bands were the last to come on board because of expensive instruments. I have a collection of late 19th-early 20th c brass instruments that are pitched anywhere between A457 and A452. Modern period-instrument groups like to play 18th-c baroque music at A415 but earlier music is played higher (about A460 for early 17thc music). Those who like French classical-era music even do A430.
  • mjballoumjballou
    Posts: 993
    And do you know how much retuning is involved for my poor harp every time someone pulls out their period instruments? Of course, that's still better than just starting to play without telling me.
  • janetgorbitzjanetgorbitz
    Posts: 964
    Now, really, it would seem more logical with those with the instruments with fewer strings should have to retune to you! no?
  • mjballoumjballou
    Posts: 993
    It's hard to retune a recorder or an Irish flute. They can pull out to lower their pitch, but they have no way to sharpen other than hideous overblowing.
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