Interview With Cardinal Sarah
  • eft94530eft94530
    Posts: 1,576
    http://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/comment/161089#Comment_161089

    And that night i texted to a some-time-past parishioner:
    Wish pope would demand all priest must face liturgical east just like the people. And pope can lead it starting at st peter's. In a single act the variety show hosts lose their audience.

    Only fourteen months have passed.
    I remain hopeful.
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,668
    Wish pope would demand all priest must face liturgical east just like the people. And pope can lead it starting at st peter's. In a single act the variety show hosts lose their audience.


    The Pope celebrates Mass at St. Peter's facing the normativel way - the altar in St. Peter's was built for the Pope to celebrate Mass facing east, which also happens to be sorta versus populum. It was this way before the Council also.

    When the Pope goes to chapels without free-standing altars, it seems he usually celebrates Mass ad orientem, with a few notable exceptions.
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,374
    "When the Pope goes to chapels without free-standing altars, it seems he usually celebrates Mass ad orientem, with a few notable exceptions."

    I am curious how there'd be an exception if there is no free-standing altar.
  • Evidence? Even a single picture (not photo-shopped) of His Holiness celebrating Mass outside of St. Peter's, oriented as Cardinal Sarah suggests!
    Thanked by 1eft94530
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,279
    Liturgical east is nonsense. East is east. When you change things and try to redefine them with craziness, it makes future nonsensical changes easier. We all know that is exactly what has happened across the board. Some things, like liturgy and its orientation, should be so sacred they are immune to theological pipe-dreaming.

    If you read the Klaus Gamber book, you will find that the St. Peter's altar faces east because it has the same placement and orientation as in the original church. The current building is much larger and it is the people's orientation that has changed.
    Thanked by 1rschi123
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,668

    I am curious how there'd be an exception if there is no free-standing altar.


    They assembled temporary ones.
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,668

    Evidence? Even a single picture (not photo-shopped) of His Holiness celebrating Mass outside of St. Peter's, oriented as Cardinal Sarah suggests!


    image

    image

    image
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 2,730
    Great scope for confusion here. Our church, like St Peter's, has the main door to the east. So until it was reordered the priest celebrated facing west, like the people. Currently we are like St. Peter's. And what should be done in countries like Finland? Finnish has no word for east, it has different words for the location of winter sunrise and summer sunrise. At least in Islam you pray towards Mecca, irrespective of whether you are north-west of it or south-south-east. Or are we seeking the sense of the priest leading the people, in which case why is St. Peter's different? Or how about Cranmer's solution, stand at the (liturgical) North, so that priest and people are gathered around the table but the people can see the action? [mostly purple]
    IMHO procede very cautiously and slowly (14 months is a trifle).
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,279
    According to Gamber, the priest and the people turned to face the east in the old St. Peter's. He points out that in churches built by Constantine and his mother, liturgy was said facing the doors in the east wall that were opened to face the morning sun. That book is a great read and full of facts on early practices.
    Thanked by 2CCooze JulieColl
  • Ben YankeBen Yanke
    Posts: 3,115
    It's worth noting the first and third picture are the same Mass.
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,668
    Here's the video of the most recent Mass I know of -
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkjTufbvSdM
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,374
    "They assembled temporary ones."

    Ah, so it's *not* "without" a free-standing altar in such case.
    Thanked by 1CCooze
  • eft94530eft94530
    Posts: 1,576
    Wish pope would demand

    Demand = motu proprio.