Sequence for Trinity Sunday
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 2,688
    (1) Is there one? (2) Where can I find it? (In Latin)
  • Caleferink
    Posts: 343
    (1) No (2) See (1)
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,217
    Not that I am aware of. That doesn't mean there's some pre-Tridentine missal with something like it, but if there was one it didn't survive the Tridentine purge (unlike some pre-Tridentine sequences that survived in Dominican or other religious order uses).

    The Athanasian Creed was the deal on Trinity Sunday.
  • Andrew_Malton
    Posts: 907

    Sing it to Lauda Sion.

    Not liturgical, today. Use it as a communion anthem, maybe.
    Thanked by 1Salieri
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 2,688
    Thank you, Andrew! After Googling around I found the incipit to that text : Profitentes unitatem, but not the whole text, and no tune to go with it. (Maybe I'll try Lauda Sion with it.)
    Thanked by 1Liam
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,391

    While I am in favor of the restoration of (some of) the Pre-Tridentine Sequences, I'm curious what your plan is here. You can't (can you?) use this piece as originally intended. Will it be just a choir "anthem."
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 2,688
    I have three parts to my modus operandi: first, is just general curiosity and chant-geekiness; second, it might be nice as a choir piece after communion or something; third, it seems (to me, and some others here, notably Dr. Mahrt) that the rubric "all other sequences are optional" isn't exact on whether it means "all" as in "all of them" or "all other sequences in this book" -- rad-trad rebel that I am, I used Notker's sequence for All Saints as the actual Sequence last Nov. 1st. -- Maybe I'm just trying to "make a mess".
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,217
    But it needs to be a sequence in the current approved liturgical books (OF or EF) to count as an optional sequence qua sequence.
    Thanked by 1Ioannes Andreades
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 1,382
    Yeah, the one that’s in question is the Dies Irae. My vote is if you want it, go the TLM route. If you want more, get your priest to learn Sarum.
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,217
    Yes, though at least the DI is in current approved liturgical books. The effective rule is whether the pastor will accept or resist the idea. To my mind, if a family requests it, and it can be done, I don't think a pastor would be *wrong* to permit it, as the relevant legislation is ambiguous - reasonable arguments could be presented on either side of it.
  • billmcjohn
    Posts: 14
    The Utrecht Prosarium (Monumenta Musica Neerlandica VI) gives several choices: 'Benedicta semper sancta sit Trinitas', 'Laus Deo Patri', and 'Benedictio Trinae Unitati'.
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,661
    I've seen some worship aids where folks just run Latin texts through Google Translate and then print them... I know Salieri would never do this... but for fun I threw the sequence on there to see how it would translate it and the results are pretty fun.

    professing unity
    Trinity venerate
    In the same respect,
    Three persons asserting
    personal differences
    The essential difference.

    These things are relative,
    Since they are one substantive,
    There are three principles.
    Whether it is three or three,
    But one substance,
    There are three essential.

    Simply being able to be simple,
    A simple desire to know a simple,
    All simple.
    Not one but two
    Or three persons
    Minor efficacy.

    The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit,
    God is one, but they still
    They have certain properties.
    One power, one deity,
    One light, one light,
    This one is different.

    Father offspring is equal,
    Do not take this personal
    Both distinction.
    Comparable to the Father and the Son,
    From both a spiritual
    Proceeds connection.

    No human reason
    These persons can be arrested,
    Neither of these made.
    This order is not temporary,
    Not in this country, or local
    The circumscription.

    Nothing in God but God,
    There is no other cause
    Cause of all causality.
    Effective or formal
    The cause of God, and the final
    But no matter;

    Touching talk about persons
    Transcends reason,
    Exceeds characters.
    What it is to birth is, that the process,
    I confess I do:
    But faith is not in doubt.

    Who believes this, not in a hurry,
    And by the way, did not decline
    Ne'er palace.
    Keep the faith, customs forms,
    Do not turn to errors
    And the Church of God.

    We take pride in the faith,
    We play in one
    Praise is threefold,
    And Triune
    Eternal glory! Amen.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,296
    I like verse six and verse nine the best!
    Thanked by 1SrEleanor
  • Here is the Prose for Trinity Sunday Os superbum conticescat from the supplement Offices Notés propres au Diocèse de Lyon, 1937.
  • StimsonInRehabStimsonInRehab
    Posts: 1,659
    RE: "Profitentes unitatem" - there's a hymn entitled "De Trinitate" in the Pius X Hymnal which contains at least a portion of this text. Is that what you're looking for, Salieri?
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,028
    My comment has disappeared, (and now appeared below)

    There are a number of Sequences for the Trinity,

    music here for Profitentes Unitatem,

    The Melody is from “Les Proses d'Adam de Saint-Victor: Texte et Musique, by E. Misset and Pierre Aubry.” this book is on the internet archive, and has all of the melodies, and commentary in french. N.B. this book has abbreviated Latin text

    Metrical English translations can be found for all the Adam of St. Victor Sequences, in 3 vol. here, S. WRANGHAM

    The Liturgical year, Gueranger has this sequence (Vol. 10 pg. 116.)

    Sarum sequences can be found on the Sarum Chant website, (click link for sequences)
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 1,704
    matthewj, I never knew Gertrude Stein wrote religious poetry.
    Thanked by 1matthewj
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 2,688
    Thanks, Tom: I found the Music for Profitentes in a MS of Hymns, Tropes, & Sequences from S. Gall at e-codices. (What a wonderful resource!) I was afraid I'd have to try to transcribe it, but it seems that has already been done for me.
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,268
    There's the Victorine Laetabundi jubilemus (to the Lauda tune) and I'm not sure there aren't several more ("trinity sequence - RNA" still gets an unmanageable number of irrelevant hits). Isaac's alternatim Benedicta semper sancta sit Trinitas may be found in DTÖ 10.

    Wednesday: There seems to be a new moderation turnaround time: is this triggered by external links?
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,028
    Missing post finally appeared...
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,028
    One of the former Trinity Sequences can be found here,

    The Melody and Text comes from the following book, this has all the Adam of St. Victor Sequences, with commentary in French... melodies are at the back, please note that this edition uses abbreviated latin text.

    "The Liturgical Year, Gueranger" has the latin text and a translation of this Sequence.
    (Vol. 10 pg. 116.)

    Metrical translations in English of the Adam of St. Victor Sequences by DIGBY S. WRANGHAM can be found in the following 3 vol.'s, st victor

    Profitentes Unitatem is not a Sarum Sequence, but all the Sarum Sequences can be found on the Sarum Chant website, see 'Latin Sequentiarium' link, I think they have a sequence for Trinity Sunday.

    We sing the Profitentes Unitatem as a motet in the E.F. But sadly it could not be used as a Sequence...

    I am not sure that it is STILL allowed to sing a suitable song before the Gospel in the O.F. but a former sequence would be ideal. If not it could be described as Mutual Enrichment! As long as the priest is happy I don't see a problem.

    While it would be great to have a few more Sequences, I do wonder how 'we' would choose them, and how much red ink would be needed to edit them for modern ears, let alone how awful the translations will be!
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,217
    "I am not sure that it is STILL allowed to sing a suitable song before the Gospel in the O.F. but a former sequence would be ideal."

    It's not and I don't recall it ever being permitted.
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,028
    From the GIRM on the Vatican website... (EDIT this is not the current GIRM!!!)

    After the reading that immediately precedes the Gospel, the Alleluia or another chant indicated by the rubrics is sung, as required by the liturgical season.

    From EWTN, (EDIT nor is this...)
    62 After the reading which immediately precedes the Gospel, the Alleluia or another song indicated by the rubrics is sung, according to the liturgical season.

    Note the word song... some took this to mean former Sequence. I think one of the earlier English translations of the above mentioned 'suitable song', and did not mention rubrics! So implying you could sing any song you liked.
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,217
    Here's the 1975 GIRM - the reference to another option is not to "another suitable song" but to psalms or tracts from the LEctionary or Graduale:

    37. As the season requires, the "Alleluia" or another chant follows the second reading.

    a. The "Alleluia" is sung in every season outside Lent. It is begun either by all present or by the choir or cantor; it may then be repeated. The verses are taken from the Lectionary or the "Graduale."

    b. The other chant consists of the verse before the gospel or another psalm or tract, as found in the Lectionary or the "Graduale."

    38. When there is only one reading before the gospel:

    a. during a season calling for the "Alleluia," there is an option to use either the psalm with "Alleluia" as the response, or the responsorial psalm and the "Alleluia" with its verse, or just the psalm, or just the "Alleluia";

    b. during the season when the "Alleluia" is not allowed, either the responsorial psalm or the verse before the gospel may be used.

    39. If the psalm after the reading is not sung, it is to be recited. If not sung, the "Alleluia" or the verse before the gospel may be omitted.

    40. Sequences are optional, except on Easter Sunday and Pentecost.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 8,499
    In case it's not obvious, neither of the quotations tomjaw presented above is from the current GIRM for the US, which is on the USCCB site.

    The EWTN quotation appears to come from a collection of GIRM quotes prepared by their staff theologian; unfortunately, it doesn't indicate a precise source. It matches the numbering of the Roman Missal Third Edition, so I presume it was created sometime after 2000.

    The GIRM edition on the Vatican website is not current either (!). After the Missale Romanum editio tertia was published in Latin in 2000 (and some addenda or corrections published in 2002), an edition of its GIRM was published for the US in 2003. That 2003 version is on It was superseded when the full Roman Missal Third Edition was published in English in 2010.

    Even if some version of the GIRM spoke of a "song" before the Gospel, no one was really justified in singing an arbitrary song: if the text called for a "song indicated by the rubrics", that had to refer to a gospel acclamation or tract, or a sequence from the Lectionary.
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,217

    And I supplied the text of the prior (1975) version of the GIRM as well, which was in accord fwiw.
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,028
    @Liam & @chonak

    I would have thought the Vatican would be up to date, but then again...

    I think the text for the U.K. was different, and many places including my local Cathedral sang former Sequences before the Gospel.

    Our chant meetings now have very few O.F. folks so don't know what the latest is, and I have not been to the O.F. for around 20 years.

    Anyway we should soon have an occasional Sarum rite Mass at a Parish near us so we will have plenty of Sequences and Tropes to sing.
    Thanked by 1Salieri
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 8,499
    I would have thought the Vatican would be up to date, but then again...

    Efficiency is apparently not a hallmark of the Vatican's telecomm services.
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 2,688
    Efficiency is apparently not a hallmark of the Vatican's telecomm services.

  • eft94530eft94530
    Posts: 1,574
    Unfortunately the Vatican website offers documents by language only,
    Not by jurisdiction.
    The English version happens to be the USA modified doc.
    It only applies to the USA.

    I like the old old way better.
    The USA adaptations were provided in an Appendix.
  • CCoozeCCooze
    Posts: 1,045
    So, I was considering setting the sequence from the Choralis Constantinus. Given that the first line of text is, "Pater, filius, sanctus spiritus: tria sunt nomina omnia eadem substantia," I'm guessing it goes to the sequence "Benedicta semper sit beata Trinitas Deitas," which I found the text for in the Sarum sequences, but am not sure if their provision of the text means to set it to the sequence of the same feast, that contains different text, or if they are just making us aware of another possible sequence? (see attached snippet from the Sarum Latin Sequentiarium)

    Any ideas?
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,028
    The following volumes of the Analecta Hymnica are listed as containing sequences, 8, 9, 10, 37, 39, 40, 42, 44, 53, and 54.

    I started at 54 and worked forward,
    Trinity sequences
    1. Laus Deo Patri (4 verses) AH 54 pg 23
    2. Profitentes unitatem (18 verses) AH 54 pg 249
    3. Patrem datum paracletum (18 verses) AH 54 pg 251
    4. Quicunque vult salvus esse (8 verses) AH 54 pg 252
    5. Vox clarescat, mens purgetur (6 verses) AH 54 pg 254
    6. Jubilemus cordis voce (12 verses) AH 54 pg 255
    7. Dulcis amor pax veritas (6 verses) AH 54 pg 256
    8. Benedicta semper sancta sit trinitas (20 verses) AH 53 pg 139

    Link here to sequence no. 8.

    Full text (I have tried to correct the OCR typos but may have missed some)

    81. De sanctissima Trinitate.

    1 . Benedicta semper sancta sit trinitas,
    deitas scilicet unica, coaequalis gloria.

    2. Pater, filius, sanctus Spiritus
    tria sunt nomina, omnia eadem substantia.

    3 Deus genitor, Deus genitus,
    in utroque sacer Spiritus deitate socius.

    4. Non tres tarnen dii sunt ;

    5. Deus verus unus est ;

    6. Sic pater Dominus, filius
    spiritusque Dominus.

    7. Proprietas in personis,
    unitas est et in essentia,

    8. Maiestas par et potestas,
    decus, honoraeque per omnia.

    9. Sidera, maria continens,
    arva simul et universa condita;

    10. Quem tremunt impia tartara,
    colit quoque quem et abyssus infima.

    11. Nunc omnis vox atque lingua fateatur
    hunc laude debita,

    12. Quem laudat sol atque luna.
    dignitas adorat angelica.

    13. Et nos voce praecelsa nunc
    onines modulemur organica cantica dulci melodia.

    14. Eia et eia nunc simul omnes iubilemus
    altithrono Domino laudes in excelso.

    15. O veneranda trinitas !

    16. O adoranda unitas!

    17. Per te sumus creati, Vera aeternitas ;

    18. Per te sumus redempti, summa tu Caritas.

    19. Populum cunctum tu protege,
    salva, libera, eripe et emunda.

    20. Te adoramus, omnipotens, tibi canimus, tibi laus et gloria.
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,028
    The Cantus Database now contains an index of sequences...

    putting in the first two words brings us to the record for this sequence, referencing back to Vol 53 item 81 in the Analecta Hymnica,

    Cantus Database code is ah53081, this tells us that it is found in 196 manuscripts...

    Listed here,

    Sadly no one has found the time to put links up, but I am sure some of these manuscripts should be online with readable notation.

    Started going through the Swiss manuscripts...

    Einsiedeln, Stiftsbibliothek, Codex 121(1151)

    Einsiedeln, Stiftsbibliothek, Codex 366(472)

    St. Gallen, Stiftsbibliothek, Cod. Sang. 375

    Schaffhausen, Stadtbibliothek, Ministerialbibliothek, Min. 95
  • CCoozeCCooze
    Posts: 1,045
    Oh... I found it!
    It's actually way back in the appendix (2nd of 3 chants), listed under the Transfiguration.
  • Cantus67Cantus67
    Posts: 201
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • Here is also a simple SATB setting that can be saved as pdf through the Print icon.

    it didn't survive the Tridentine purge

    Oh, goodness! What purge? The pre-tridentine Missal of the Roman Curia contained only two (or three?) sequences. Many other medieval uses were as shy as Rome as to the inclusion of sequences in their books. Other places, in turn, produced great number of this genre of chants, but most of them remained strictly local phenomena.
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • Ney
    Posts: 4
    Just thought I would share this in case anyone is still interested.
    Thanked by 2tomjaw CHGiffen
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 8,499
    Thanks, Ney, for sharing that Trinity sequence and for that Franciscan Cantus varii. The CMAA site has an unrelated book by the same title from 1928.
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,028
    Another melody for the Adam of St. Victor Sequence for Trinity Sunday can be found here,
    Henri has also inserted links to the manuscripts! More discussion about the sequences for Trinity Sunday can be found in a number of posts further up this thread.

    @Ney It is great to have a universal link for the Cantus Varii, I had to get mine from Google using the Tor browser (to hide I was in England) There are 3 or 4 different books with this title.
    I notice the blog post notices some oddities in Cantus Varii, I too have found it differs from the Analecta, but the manuscripts do not always agree either!
    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • Carol
    Posts: 661
    I had a nightmare that I was permitted to be cantor for a Mass this past weekend and suddenly during the Mass I realized that there was a sequence coming up for which I had no music! Glad to wake up, but at least I went to Mass in my dreams.
    Thanked by 3tomjaw WGS Elmar