More good things coming out of the Diocese of Lincoln, NE
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,696
    Quote from this article:
    Despite having a Catholic population of only 97,000, the Lincoln diocese ordained 22 men from 2010-2012. Only seven diocese in the entire country ordained more. One of those, the Archdiocese of Los Angeles (with a Catholic population over 4.2 million) ordained 34 men during those same three years. In other words, L.A. only ordained four more men per year on average despite having a population 44X greater than Lincoln.


    If any of you live in a neighboring diocese or state or are lucky enough to be from Lincoln, there's a great sacred music event happening in the Diocese later this Summer:
    http://www.lincolndiocese.org/news/diocesan-news/5335-diocese-to-host-clinic-on-sacred-music-aug-27

    Look forward to seeing you in Lincoln!
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • Scott_WScott_W
    Posts: 468
    Title of the article: "Why Aren’t Other Dioceses Looking to Lincoln?"

    That's an easy one: haters gonna hate.
  • kevinfkevinf
    Posts: 1,186
    Bishop Conley will be the keynote speaker at this year's colloquium. That alone would make it worth going.
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    The Diocese of Brooklyn (population 4.9 million) actually had the largest ordination class in the nation last year: 11 men. Si Deus vult, that trend will continue.
  • johnmann
    Posts: 175
    I can assure you that it isn't anything liturgical that's causing the vocations in Brooklyn. It's a diocese made up of ethnic parishes, which probably have a better track record of vocations.
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    Agreed, but we're certainly trying to make a difference at the TLM in our little chapel in Queens and are greatly blessed with many wonderful altar boys, regularly a dozen every Sunday. The vocations director of the diocese visited on the Feast of St. Joseph which was rather unprecedented, I think. I'm very impressed with the dedicated young diocesan priests who celebrate Mass for us, and we are very grateful to our bishops for their kindness and encouragement.
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,696
    The chant conference that I mentioned above is to draw 220 people.

    Lincoln. Nebraska. 220 people.

  • dad29
    Posts: 2,218
    Matthewj, you are welcome for the gift Milwaukee sent you in the form of Bp. F. Bruskewitz. Bet you didn't know that he was a room-mate of Fr. R. Skeris in seminary, did you?
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,499
    Wow.
  • According to a priest acquaintance, Bishop Bruskewitz was responsible for stopping one of Bugnini's proposed alterations during the Second Vatican Council. Bugnini referred to Bruskewitz as "that meddling peritus" (or words to that effect) in his memoirs.

    (This priest also told me that allegedly, Bugnini never celebrated a Sung Mass in his entire life. So I think his new nickname should be "Annibale Lecta".)
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    (This priest also told me that allegedly, Bugnini never celebrated a Sung Mass in his entire life. So I think his new nickname should be "Annibale Lecta".)


    That doesn't surprise me.
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,943
    It probably is uncharitable - something I have been accused of being for years. But have you considered how much better off we would be if some individuals like Bugnini had been shot before they could do any damage?

    Lincoln deserve much love and respect.
  • BruceL
    Posts: 1,072
    I was just telling Matthewj the other day that +Bruskewitz said the quickest pontifical Mass we've ever had here in Birmingham. You Midwesterners don't mess around! ;-)
    Thanked by 1Ben
  • Bruce,

    Does this mean that even in Latin the priests speak slowly, and with a slight drawl?
  • BruceL
    Posts: 1,072
    This was a pontifical Mass in English...not sure about Latin! :)
  • allegedly, Bugnini never celebrated a Sung Mass in his entire life

    This appears to contradict the story that the "demo version" of the new Mass, celebrated before the synod fathers on 1967 by Bugnini himself was a sung Mass. Reportedly card. Heenan was not excited, as the idea was to coerce the congregation to sing, too.
    Thanked by 1a_f_hawkins
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,385
    Bugnini emphasises, in his description of this "demo" and its aftermath, that opposition to singing at Mass was concentrated among the English speaking prelates.
  • Hawkins,

    This is funny, because English Protestants seem to break out in 4-part harmony without being asked. Are English Catholics different in this regard, or were the English-speaking prelates all of one mindset because of their training, or is there some other explanation?
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,385
    The Irish influence, to which Day attributes this in "Why Catholics Can't Sing", was even stronger proportionally here than in the USA. Why Irishmen should not want to sing in church when they sing so freely in pubs and at home is a complete mystery to me. I grew up in a Benedictine parish, and went to a Benedictine school which took congregational participation in chant as normative, so this attitude is foreign to me.
  • This appears to contradict the story that the "demo version" of the new Mass, celebrated before the synod fathers on 1967 by Bugnini himself was a sung Mass. Reportedly card. Heenan was not excited, as the idea was to coerce the congregation to sing, too.


    Yet one more reason I'm not terribly fond of falling back on +Heenan as the bastion of British conservatism (that, and some of the flip-flopping he did in his correspondence with Waugh). That sort of philistinism was what led to the Council in the first place.

    Pace the Cardinal, but I'd sooner join the men outside for a cigarette if it was a Low Mass, instead of a High one. That was, if I still did that sort of thing. [Smoke, that is, not skip out on Mass.]
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    Why Irishmen should not want to sing in church when they sing so freely in pubs and at home is a complete mystery to me.


    As I understand it, it used to be illegal in the British Isles to be Catholic, and considered treason to not obey the Church of England, whose supreme leader is, of course, the British monarch. For fear of losing their lives, silent Masses became normal for them.

    As for why they break out into four part harmony without being asked, I can check with my colleague who is Episcopalian and ask her if she has any ideas, but I imagine she will tell me it has to do with training: it is expected in the CofE that the music minister is a fully trained, professional musician, capable of teaching and performing the highest level of sacred music. The faithful are likewise taught to sing from an early age, and then there is the CofE tradition of child choristers and the Royal School of Church Music that provides high levels of training. Combine the training and expectation of high level church music, and the fact that the four parts are available in every hymnal they use and you get a situation that completely encourages congregational four-part singing.
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,696
    Attendance at this event, by the way, went up to over 230 people. It was a delightful event which ended with the Chancellor of the Diocese celebrating a Sung Mass with the participants.

    The next day His Excellency, Bishop Conley celebrated Mass at the Newman Center - packed to capacity with students - ad orientem.
  • Matthew,

    Evidently you haven't been paying attention to the right sources of information. Students have only a passing-fad interest in the ways of worshipping God in the past. Additionally, ad orientem worship is only suggested by African Cardinals who can't teach us anything.
  • rich_enough
    Posts: 1,033
    Recent interview with Bishop Conley at Catholic World Report here.
    Thanked by 1StimsonInRehab
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,715
    This is funny, because English Protestants seem to break out in 4-part harmony without being asked.


    I think you mean English Anglicans, with the Methodists... although both groups are now dying out.

    Why Irishmen should not want to sing in church when they sing so freely in pubs and at home is a complete mystery to me.


    Different style of music! I love singing Carols (Oxford book of Carols), but would never sing them in church, most of the best ones are not suitable.

    Yet one more reason I'm not terribly fond of falling back on +Heenan


    ++Heenan, I am told is the main reason that Westminster kept their choirs and school. He had a difficult path to tread and preserved what he could in the face of the destructors that had so much success elsewhere.

    CofE tradition of child choristers
    This Tradition is pre-Reformation...

    It is not really fair to compare the musical traditions of Catholics vs. Anglicans. Hymns are an important part of the Anglican service, they have been singing vernacular songs / hymns for a very long time. Their Hymnals over the last 100+ years have not had the changes that the Catholic Hymnals have undergone.

    While English Catholics have a tradition of singing vernacular Hymns these were generally only sung at devotions / processions, Not at Mass. I believe that it was more common for a choir to sing the Mass, with more limited congregational singing.

    Of course with the N.O. we now have a liturgy that has allowed the singing of Hymns at Mass, but with the far from settled liturgy, the multiple changes in the Hymnals, and the collapse in Mass attendance, we have not had the stability needed to build a strong tradition of congregational singing.
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,385
    we have not had the stability needed to build a strong tradition of congregational singing.
    And unless/until we have hymn texts which have received full scrutiny from the same authorities as the propers, they are IMHO not proper. Although (as a PIP) I do sing them for want of being offered something better.
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    Although (as a PIP) I do sing them for want of being offered something better.


    I have something better: the Graduale Romanum, and I have it in multiple formats. I can bring it with me to each and every Mass, and sing from it at will. The problem, I think, is that current Church leadership doesn't want to hear it: "the people" can't sing it.
    Thanked by 2a_f_hawkins dad29
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,715
    Although (as a PIP) I do sing them for want of being offered something better.


    I don't think this is a good idea, I aways hand back any Hymnal to the person handing them out, saying "No Thanks!" Have never been challenged but have plenty to say about awful Songs / hymns , and the lack of taste shown by those choosing hymns.

    A former parish priest of my home parish tried to get the PIPs to sing hymns at all the Sunday Masses, even those Masses that never had hymns before... He soon stopped the trial thanks to PIPs handing the hymn books back as they were given out, and also the problem he found that he was the only one singing!