Excellent Arrangement of What Wondrous Love (PDF Included)
  • JacobFlahertyJacobFlaherty
    Posts: 328
    Presenting the most solid arrangement of What Wondrous Love I have encountered... Eric THIMAN https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Thiman is the arranger and composer of the descant, a really quite splendid work, in my opinion. I first heard and sung this arrangement when I was in the Holy Childhood Schola Cantorum (St. Paul, Minnesota) as a boy Soprano in the 5th grade. It is on their CD, Alleluia! Let the Holy Anthem Rise, available if you contact the parish directly. http://www.holychildhoodparish.org/index.html

    I have done my best at seeing if their are any copyright issues, and finding none, I submit it so that others can enjoy this solid work. If you have evidence to the contrary, feel free to let me know, and I will take it down. God bless you!

    image
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,943
    I see the andante marking. I have to say that, when I've sung this in shape note groups, andante is not the usual tempo. It moves notably faster than that.
  • CCoozeCCooze
    Posts: 1,259
    Yes, it is usually at a decently-moving tempo (perhaps why they have the "con moto," you can basically choose any tempo and claim it's sort of slow, but moving..). There was one time that we sang it at a somewhat slower pace, and it was really awkward.
    Luckily, though, this isn't a song we sing with even remote regularity, so I don't have to worry about it.
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,943
    I saw the con moto. Unfortunately, what I often hear in Catholic contexts is charitably described as "stately". The wonder in this is ... urgent.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    my tempo is around 105
  • JacobFlahertyJacobFlaherty
    Posts: 328
    At Holy Childhood, we would sing this arrangement at around 88-90, and then for verse 3 "broadly" sing it at around 85 - 80 for verse 3. (We had a nice acoustic.) For the final 'I will sing!' we would get close to 55-60, which was really effective.
  • CorAnglais16
    Posts: 25
    I see the andante marking. I have to say that, when I've sung this in shape note groups, andante is not the usual tempo. It moves notably faster than that.

    Yes—but shape-note singing and the ensuing upbeat tempi are American traditions, while Thiman was part of the English tradition. The more stately tempo here is appropriate in that context, given the way Thiman has constructed the accompaniment. I wouldn't want to hear this any faster than, say, 60 to the half note.
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,150
    Copyright for this work was registered in 1961 to Broadman Press.

    See this entry from the Catalog of Copyright Entries, Third Series:

         image
    WONDROUS LOVE; unison with descant. w: anonymous, m: American folk hymn, arr. Eric H. Thiman. General. Score. (Broadman choral music, MP 593)
    NM: arr. for unison with descant & organ acc. © Broadman Press; 1Mar61 EP150276.

    Moreover, Eric Harding Thiman died in 1975 which, if the copyright had not been assigned to Broadman Press, would still put the work under default copyright, as only 41 years have passed since his death. I don't know of the availability of the score for sale.

  • Liam
    Posts: 4,943
    And I find 60 bpm to be deadly dreary for this text and tune. It's like giving it a Quaalude.
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,150
    "my tempo is around 105"

    "we would sing this arrangement at around 88-90, and then for verse 3 "broadly" sing it at around 85 - 80 for verse 3. (We had a nice acoustic.) For the final 'I will sing!' we would get close to 55-60"

    "And I find 60 bpm to be deadly dreary for this text and tune."

    It's in Cut Common time (2/2), not Common time (4/4). 60 bpm at 2/2 is indeed dreary, but 105 at 2/2 sounds like they're off to the races at the Kentucky Derby.
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,943
    Unfortunately, Catholic organists tend to not realize it's not in 4/4 time....

    Chuck: you will appreciate that my introduction to shape note music came under the direction of your predecessor at St T's.....

    Then I got to participate in open sings in Cambridge MA. I loves shape note music, though it's been decades since I last joined a sing. And I've greedily sampled the idiom in other forms.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,943
    PS, more context for my last note - Cambridge MA, of all places, was a bit of a hotbed for the New England recovery of the tradition (which arguably started there) back in the day. If memory serves, the recording of this lovely album occurred at a church surrounded by the Harvard Law School, while a few blocks away, Norumbega Harmony was hosting regular open sings, and Joel Cohen's Boston Camerata was doing its own wonderful work with the idiom. Listen and enjoy:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuwqNayqu84
  • Andrew_Malton
    Posts: 1,156
    You all might already know Blue Heaven's bluegrassy version of Wondrous Love, eg https://youtube.com/watch?v=Nu9KjxaVEC4

    This arrangement is close to the above, but easier: and nearly free. I've enjoyed using it: http://www.music-for-music-teachers.com/what-wondrous-love-1.html
  • JacobFlahertyJacobFlaherty
    Posts: 328
    CHGiffen, Thanks for the notice. I took it down. I am going to contact the holders of this piece, and inquire whether they'd be alright with opening up this work. It's really quite a nice arrangement.

    Rather than nitpick about tempi, perhaps some here would like to play through it and see what works with the harmonies given. Just because you play version A of this piece at one tempo doesn't mean you can get away with it on every other version... A piece you've never heard before and the first thing pounded down was how dreadful an interpretation of it is, even though you hadn't heard it. Frustrating...
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,150
    Here is a performance from last year. But note that the 2nd stanza is sung harmonized (from what source, I don't know). Otherwise, it's the Thiman arrangement.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sx6YrA22Xs
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,943
    Thanks, Chuck.

    Yes, I've heard this before a few times, not know whose arrangement it was. It was the back of my mind on this thread.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    Two things I like:
    - American Folk Spiritual Music
    - Anglican Choral Tradition

    Two other things I like
    - Oreos
    - Nacho cheese dip

    What do these pairs have in common?
    Thanked by 2Liam tomjaw
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    What do these pairs have in common?

    They don't mix.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRpV9H9ZpB0
    Thanked by 2Liam Adam Wood
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,943
    Yes!
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    The tempo has to be based upon the room acoustics.
  • Ashleyadams
    Posts: 2
    Does anyone have a copy of the Thiman setting that they would be willing to share with me?
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