A flatted fifth?
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    I finally found what I think is a flatted fifth, the dreaded "Diabolus in Musica". It's in the alto line in Peter Knight's rather challenging arrangement of Danny Boy, which my family is rehearsing now. It's quite fascinating, considering the context. The singer is saying, "And I shall sleep in peace, sleep in peace until you come to me." The thought occurs that perhaps the singer is not certain how well things might go for him in the after life?

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  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    It's a funny lyric. An article about the song suggests that it may have been meant to be sung by a lover, rather than a mother:

    Who is Singing to Danny?

    Suggestions have ranged from an Irish chieftain bidding his son farewell to a female friend. Given that Weatherly had stated in an addendum to his 1918 publication of 'Danny Boy' that when a man sings the song, the words 'Danny Boy' should be substituted with 'Eily Dear', it may be that the song is only meant to be sung by a woman - perhaps to avoid embarrassment among males singing the song in those days. Many suggest that it has to be sung by a lover, taking the line 'And I will sleep in peace until you come to me' to indicate possessiveness uncharacteristic in a parent or mentor.


    Maybe the singer is saying she expects a great fulfillment from Danny's arrival in the afterlife. But surely the notion that souls sleep in the afterlife until a final fulfillment is not Catholic, but a minority Protestant view. As it happens, the same lyricist wrote the sentimental song "The Holy City", which is often suspected of Masonic associations.

    The tritone B-F is part of the chord G-B-D-F, which contains all the notes of that echo "sleep in peace"; there's an even greater dissonance on "come", in which the chord is G-A-B-C-D-E!
    Thanked by 1JulieColl
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    That interpretation makes very good sense--even though all my life I've thought it was about a dying father singing to his son. Thanks for pointing out that whopper of a chord near the end and the info on the tritone. My son said we better not ever sing this in church or all the altos could be burned at the stake for singing the devil's interval. : )

    P.S. Here's the King Singer's singing this arrangement: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StTzMhXDH0g&list=RDStTzMhXDH0g#t=13
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,093
    So, that means no 7th chords, et cet.....
    Thanked by 2Gavin JulieColl
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    The only time I ever flatted a fifth was when I ran over an empty Jack Daniels bottle.
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    I bet you flatted a tire, too.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    I bet you flatted a tire, too.


    Nope. Steel belts in the tire. Glass doesn't hurt them.
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,193
    Actually, it seems that a fourth was augmented. Just sayin'.
  • CCoozeCCooze
    Posts: 1,259
    Not gonna lie, this arrangement does nothing for me. Kind of odd, and I'm not sure why he needs so many notes in each chord. (yes, I sound like the ignorant emperor saying there are simply "too many notes")
    I'm not sure which "lowered" note in the alto line you are referring to. If it's on the word "in," then it's a just the top of a dominant 7th, and the "to" is a dominant..minor 9th, at best.. right? Each of those alto notes being an added minor third above either a 5th or 7th chord, and therefore not having a lowered 5th anywhere? (man, that theory stuff is exhausting... and I could easily be way off.)
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,193
    I think the reference in the Alto line is the augmented fourth drop from the B natural to the F natural in the first measure.

    Basically, this King's Singers arrangement is something of a cross between jazz and barbershop, so the weird notes & harmonies aren't unexpected. It's a world in which almost anything goes.
    Thanked by 2CCooze JulieColl
  • CCoozeCCooze
    Posts: 1,259
    Ah, going for the motion, not the chord placement. Yes, I see an augmented 4th.
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    Thanks for the correction!
  • ghmus7
    Posts: 1,483
    Charles' Jack Daniels comment gets my vote for the funniest of the year!
    Thanked by 2CharlesW CHGiffen