Msgr. Pope vs. David Haas
  • Scott_WScott_W
    Posts: 468
    A reader sent Monsignor Pope a link as a subtle way of telling him his ministry sucked. Well, the link was to something by our pal David Haas. The Monsignor was having none of it: http://blog.adw.org/2016/01/defining-ministry-or-muddling-it-a-reflection-on-an-article-assigned-to-me/
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  • kevinfkevinf
    Posts: 1,191
    Mr. Haas has certainly shown his true colours. In the article at the end, a comment links to what Haas actually wrote.

    I suppose my friends at St. Vincent dePaul would have trouble with the "we are not supposed to feed the hungry, we are supposed to recognize our hungers."

    There are just too many problems with Haas's manifesto. Lets just call it what it is: the meanderings of a has been still stuck in the 1980s. Others probably would call it heresy. I can live with that also.

    The other problem I have is that many of his "followers" have not the theological knowledge to even begin to critique it. Monsignor Pope, fortunately, blows it all out of the water in his clear and critical way.

    De profundis ad te clamavi Domine.....
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  • MichaelDickson
    Posts: 419
    Reading ignorant pretentiousness like Mr. Haas' little ditty just makes me angry. I don't know why I looked.

    The irony of The Rule of Mr. Haas is that in proclaiming it he is doing exactly what he claims ministers should not do. Honestly, how can he not see that point?
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  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    Isn't Mr. Haas a Protestant? That would explain some of his views.
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  • Liam
    Posts: 5,093
    I think you are thinking of Marty Haugen, who was Lutheran and now UCC.
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  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    My mistake, then. Sorry.
  • WiesOrganista
    Posts: 128
    This "creed" was quite a common theme among the "powers that were" in the Diocese of Saginaw at the time, of which Haas was a fixture at the time. And if you didn't agree, you were stuck in the past and shunned. I was a kid, being 11 when I started playing the organ, but I was present for the meetings and the diocesan worship workshops of the 1990's, and I remember. Women getting their feet washed, sand in the holy water fonts during Lent, seeing nuns concelebrating on several occasions, kneelers being torn out, statues being buried behind the churches, the cathedral and its portable altar and chairs arranged differently every time I was there. I even remember attending a Haas concert (with his then wife) at the cathedral - I thought it was pretty cool at the time. Just 25 years ago, the churches up there, even the country churches, were full every weekend. Now, about 40 years after the Reh/Untener dynasties began, half the churches are closed and the remaining half hanging on by a thread. Pretty obvious where that agenda has gotten them. It truly breaks my heart to see so many of the parishes I grew up around either closed or barely hanging on.
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  • ryandryand
    Posts: 1,640
    From Wiki:
    In 2015, David Haas was awarded the Doctor of Humane Letters Honorary Degree from the University of Portland for his contributions to the world of liturgical music and contemporary Catholic thought


    "For his contributions"
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  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Honoris causa... isn't usually awarded on the basis of "for good or ill", is it?
  • Felipe Gasper
    Posts: 804
    I have tried to find another path, but I find myself trending nowadays toward the mindset that Haas and his ilk (who remain legion, by the way, in positions of great influence) simply follow a different religion. Haas’s “proverbs” are rife with the same ideological formlessness that prompts people to dissent from prominent teachings and still self-identify as Catholics. Culturally, I think it’s born of an ignorance of (and indifference to) our heritage. Spiritually … well, it’s not for me to conjecture.
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  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Felipe,

    I don't know about another religion, because I haven't done sufficient research into Haas himself.

    Nevertheless, I think you're on to something. The term "ministry" is a cudgel, being used to force agreement with other ideas. It's rather like using the term "humility" to require the non-defense of the Church's teaching on [fill in appropriate term here], and "intolerant" to apply to the person defending the truth.


    As in ...

    "Have the humility to admit that you don't know everything, and that other people's experience of God may be different from yours."

    and

    "You believe in only one God? How intolerant of you".

    The same people then go on to pontificate what must be believed ......
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  • Reval
    Posts: 186
    Speaking of the term "ministry", our pastor announced a new ministry at our parish. It's literally called the cleaning ministry, where people volunteer to help clean the church on Saturday mornings.
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    Do you think that pastors call something a "ministry" in order to make it seem more like an important service to the church, and get people to join it?
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  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,086
    WiesOrganita, I grew up in the D. of Saginaw (though not as a Catholic), and when I've had to go back there on family business, I have found the fulfillment of my Sunday obligation to be more of a trial than the worship of God should be.
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