The hardest part is naming things
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,477
    Working on a database application.

    What would call the class of particular (proper) liturgies?

    That is, the set that contains:
    - Christmas Mass in the Night
    - The Fifth Sunday of Advent
    - Second Vespers of Hot Dog Thursday


    So it is an entity that:
    - has a specific set of scripture lections
    - a specific set of proper texts, including ritual texts (like a Nuptial blessing for example)
    - a date or circumstance under which it is celebrated


    I have considered "Liturgy", but I think that may be more appropriate for the set that contains:
    - Roman Rite OF Mass
    - Roman Rite OF Divine Office
    - etc.


    Maybe "Ordo"? (But then I think of Ordo as a specific instance - the Ordo for this particular celebration..)
  • Andrew_Malton
    Posts: 1,185
    "Mass" or "Office" are the usual terms, surely? "Choice of Mass"... "Votive Office" etc.

    Unfortunately there seems to be no traditional word for the union type. How about "Celebration"?
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,092
    Liturgical observance or office
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    This is English: just make up a word.
    Thanked by 3Adam Wood Ben CHGiffen
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,508
    Dies ist Deutsch. Einfach kleben Wörter zusammen.
    Thanked by 3Adam Wood Jeffrey Quick CHGiffen
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,309
    Usually you just say that “the Mass (Introit incipit)” is proper as opposed to taking anything from the Common.

    I would not count votive Masses (I guess those for specific rites are now called ritual Masses) with particular rites, because those rites can be done at other Masses.

  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,508
    I think we should go back to calling everything Quasimodo Sunday, whether it is or is not Quasimodo Sunday.
    Thanked by 7Adam Wood CharlesW Salieri bonniebede Olivier JL CHGiffen
  • bhcordovabhcordova
    Posts: 1,164
    Please make sure that I don't miss Hot Dog Thursday!!!! I like mine with mustard, chili, and cheese!
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,978
    I am not willing to give up the eastern Sunday of blessing of the fiery chariots. I always enjoyed that one. National Chocolate Day on October 28th should be, at the least, a solemn feast day.
    Thanked by 2bonniebede CHGiffen
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    National Chocolate Day on October 28th should be, at the least, a solemn feast day.

    First Class, with a privileged octave would be nice.
    Thanked by 3CharlesW igneus CHGiffen
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,477
    Any thoughts on "office"?
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Doesn't that already have a different meaning?
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,477
    Most words do.
  • rarty
    Posts: 96
    Hm, I'd say Ceremony or Rite, which could fit everything from Baptism to Burial.

    And if it is limited to the Mass and Office, you might very well use Hour or Office.
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    How 'bout calling them "Liturgical-office-thingies"?
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,215
    Formulary.

    "Office" is a classic term, but the term is also "overloaded" (as we say in I.T.) with another meaning.
    Thanked by 2Adam Wood eft94530
  • igneusigneus
    Posts: 387
    My professional suggestion is LiturgicalStuffContainer. Or, if you are programming in Smalltalk, even LiturgicalBag.

    If you are more a liturgist than a programmer, what about Libellus? This beautiful word at least isn't loaded with meanings as much as Ordo or Office.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,477
    Formulary.


    This, I think, is the best suggestion so far.
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    I like formulary too. At least if I'm understanding the context correctly, where you are discussing these liturgies in a thoretical sense, or even just their texts alone.

    For example, I'd never refer to that formulary at st. Mary's last week, but I very well might refer to the formulary for the Mass/Office of the 4th day of the octave of the 2nd Sunday after Hotdog Thursday.

    Just my 2c.
  • Blaise
    Posts: 439
    That is, the set that contains....



    I am not a liturgist, but isn't this what they call a liturgical season ?

    (Now, as an aside, in the Byzantine tradition, we would call this a postfeast of Hot Dogs, etc. For example, the postfeast of Pascha ends the Wednesday before Ascension Thursday.)

    With all due seriousness, though, with these invented examples, I have a hard time understanding what the OP is getting at. Maybe some real ones, please.

    Maybe you are referring to order, as in the Order of Christian Funerals?
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,215
    Blaise, he's not referring to a whole season, but just a single observance in the calendar, such as "Second Sunday in Humdrum Time", or "Tuesday in the First Week of Downtontide", or "The Optional Memorial of St. Rembert the Melodist".

    There is a set of propers and rubrics for each observance; that is what Adam is talking about.

    Oh: you'd like a real example. Okay:

    Saint Columban, Abbot:

    From the Common of Pastors: for Missionaries;
    or from the Common of Holy Men and Women: for an Abbot.

    Collect

    O God, who in Saint Columban
    wonderfully joined the work of evangelization
    to zeal for the monastic life,
    grant, we pray,
    that through his intercession and example
    we may strive to seek you above all things
    and to bring increase to your faithful people.
    Through our Lord Jesus Christ, you Son,
    who lives and reigns with you in the unity of the Holy Spirit,
    one God, for ever and ever.

    First Reading: Is 52:7-10
    Responsorial Psalm: Ps 96:1-2a, 2b-3, 7-8a, 10
    Alleluia: Jn 8:12
    Gospel: Lk 9:57-62


    So this formulary starts with a rubric indicating where to get all the propers which aren't specified here; then it presents a collect, and the lectionary references.


    Thanked by 1Adam Wood
  • CGM
    Posts: 697
    Observances
  • bhcordovabhcordova
    Posts: 1,164
    So, Hot Dog Thursday is not a real thing? :-(
    Thanked by 4kevinf MatthewRoth CharlesW CHGiffen
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,477
    It is, in fact, a real thing.
    Thanked by 3Salieri MatthewRoth bhcordova
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,978
    National Chocolate Day has been designated as official by the National Confectioners Association. Another group, Days of the Year LTD, has proposed July 7th. As I have noted elsewhere, DOTY is a sergianist, new-calendarist, and heretical group. Is outrage! To make proper penance, I am celebrating July 7th as a form of pre-feast Vespers in which to prayerfully sample all the available chocolate. Then I will be properly informed enough to fully celebrate the actual holy day on October 28th each year. Works for me!
  • VilyanorVilyanor
    Posts: 388
    Would something like "The Mass Proper" work? It ties in with the propers of that Mass and the proper prayers thereof, but also isn't confusingly overloaded like others that have been mentioned above.
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,325
    I dunno, Adam, not everyone agrees with you:

    isitathing.com/Hot-Dog-Thursday
  • ryandryand
    Posts: 1,640
    irishtenor,

    It is most definitely a thing.

    Also, your isitathing is broken.
    HDT.JPG
    654 x 321 - 21K
    Thanked by 1Adam Wood
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,325
    LOL!
  • bhcordovabhcordova
    Posts: 1,164
    Ok, now I don't know who to trust. Adam and ryand, or the interwebs. :-0
    Thanked by 1Ben
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,700
    Hot Dog THURSDAY is best when it is both invalid and illicit.
    Thanked by 3Spriggo Vilyanor CHGiffen
  • Spriggo
    Posts: 122
    Actually, in my Diocese Hot Dog Thursday was bumped to Sunday.
    Thanked by 2MatthewRoth cmb
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    isitathing.com/Hot-Dog-Thursday

    Make sure to go press the "DID WE GET IT WRONG?" button!
  • ryandryand
    Posts: 1,640
    This thread is an amazing snapshot of this crowd: Adam and ryand disagree with the internet, matthewj agrees with them and does illicit things, and then Ben Yanke calls everyone to become an activist.
    Thanked by 3Kathy Ben CHGiffen
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,477
    Would something like "The Mass Proper" work?


    No.

    Missing the point.

    I have a database. There is a table that contains the following entries:
    - Christmas Mass in the Night (OF)
    - Vespers for Monday in the Second Week of Lent (EF)
    - Vigil for Hot Dog Thursday (Phoenician Rite)
    - Votive Hot Dog (Western Coastal Tradition)

    The database contains info about each one --- readings, collects, sung propers. It provides a node against which hymn suggestions can be made.


    What sorts of things are those? What do you call the abstract Aristotelian idea from which each of those is instantiated?

    So far "formulary" is the only decent answer.
    Which isn't surprising. I pretty much figured it would be @chonak who came up with the right word.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,477
    Also Hot Dog Thursday is a thing.
    Thanked by 1Ben
  • bhcordovabhcordova
    Posts: 1,164
    Yay!!! I want mine with mustard, chili, & cheese. But no onions.
  • bhcordovabhcordova
    Posts: 1,164
    I would suggest "Liber Adamas" for your collection.
    Thanked by 1eft94530
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,192
    I was thinking more along the lines of "Adam Woodstock" for the collection (stock) of things Adam Wood is describing.
    Thanked by 2CharlesW eft94530
  • eft94530eft94530
    Posts: 1,577
    Formulary

    Use the Forum search bar.
    Plenty of examples.
    Thanked by 1Adam Wood
  • MichaelDickson
    Posts: 419
    I agree that formulary is good. Normally, that word would refer to the entire collection, and not to the 'abstract form' of which each item in your database is an instance. (The ecclesiastical usage of the word 'formulary', so far as I know, is to refer to a book that contains the prescribed forms for services.) So the entire thing is a formulary. The individual items are formulas, or forms, for services.

    If you're looking for the Aristotelian form, we should say it in Greek (because all abstract forms have Greek names).
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,477
    Formulary

    Use the Forum search bar.
    Plenty of examples.


    IT'S A THING!

    Wonderful.

    Thanks again @chonak for suggesting it and @eft94530 for doing the painstaking research to confirm.
    Thanked by 1eft94530
  • bhcordovabhcordova
    Posts: 1,164
    So, where does that leave the Hot Dogs?????? It is Thursday!
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,192
    It's not Hot Dog weather outside in lots of places right now.
  • bhcordovabhcordova
    Posts: 1,164
    It's always Hot Dog weather!
    Thanked by 1Adam Wood
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,477
    I actually grilled hot dogs outside in the rain last week.

    Today I had a burrito bowl. Hot Dog Thursday was not confected.
    Thanked by 2Ben bhcordova
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,477
    Lawd....

    What might one call a particular (canonical) collection of Formularies?

    That is, what are these:

    Roman OF Current
    Roman EF 1962
    Roman pre-Pian
    BCP 1928
    BCP 1979
    BCP 1979 w/Revised Common Lectionary
    Common Worship


    "Calendar" is tempting. But, you know, a little wrong.




    Formularium?
  • MichaelDickson
    Posts: 419
    Well, if one sticks with the idea that a formulary is a book, and your database is an electronic version thereof, with the added benefits that databases bring (cross-referencing, etc., then perhaps stick with words that work for books. So what is a set of related books? A collection? (I can't think of a good word for a 'multi-volume set', but I think that's sort of what you're describing.)

    I haven't heard the suffix 'ium' used in the way you suggest, but that shouldn't necessarily stop you...
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,477
    In this case a formulary is a page of a book. So I was thinking about Formularium on the model of "Hymnarium".
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,215
    Perhaps the word you are looking for is "Rite", "Use", or "Usage".
  • MichaelDickson
    Posts: 419
    In this case a formulary is a page of a book.


    Ah. I misunderstood, I was thinking of the information provided for a single mass as a 'formula' (on analogy with,say, the formula that a pharmacist would use to make a drug, back in the days when pharmacists made drugs). Then the collection of those things would be a formulary (on analogy with the books that pharmacists called 'formularies', back in the days when pharmacists had books). Then I was wondering what a collection of such things might be.

    But I see that's not how you were thinking of it. Sorry to be so slow.

    As you were...
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