I'm going to be auditioning an organist in the next few days...
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,501
    Any advice?

    He will not be the titular organist, but play for the Sunday evening Mass. It is a Mass which includes all the Gregorian propers sung by our female schola. We also sing hymns. Thanks for your help.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    I would have him play the types of music he will actually be playing most of the time. I think it pointless to audition someone on concert pieces they will rarely if ever play.
  • I'd have her play some things at sight, including hymns. While you will plan to give them music ahead of time, in some situations, especially if there are last minute substitutions of music finding out how they react and perform under that pressure helps.

    Sing along with the hymns. See how they react.

    I would also give them some youtube video links to watch of chant with organ if they have never accompanied chant. Sometimes it is hard for an organist who has developed a good sense of rhythm and leadership in their playing of hymns to be able to be just supportive and not the leader when they accompany chant at first.

    I find it is helpful to ask them about their best experiences as an organists and let then tell you about themselves. And never ask about their worst experiences...if they do bring them up, that's a real red flag situation...
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    I've not interviewed anyone before, but I've also heard of interviewers having the potential employee actually play for one of the Massed that they would be regularly assigned to. Might work well for you.
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,501
    The director of the Schola and I have discussed this a little bit. We've decided on a trial time of eight weeks to see how everyone gets along and how well he plays. This way either party can opt out if desired. You've given some excellent ideas. Thanks.
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,700
    We've went through many auditions recently. One of my favorite tests is the timing test. Have the organist play an improvisation during a (fake/acted) liturgical action. Like the incensing at the Entrance or Offertory. See what they do with it and that they're able to watch what's going on while they're playing. Do they change things up a bit depending on what's being incensed or just keep a static flow? How well do they time the ending? Etc.
  • I've never interviewed an organist, but I've interviewed lots of people.

    Remember that interviews are a horribly unnatural situation. Do what you can to make it seem 'normal', without being overly or unnaturally friendly. As was said above, focus on the skills that will actually be required to succeed at the job.

    Give the organist a chance to say why he or she wants the job. I have found answers to this question to be very revealing. If a candidate focuses on past horrible experiences, think twice (three times is better) before hiring. If a candidate gives a generic answer, think twice. If the candidate is familiar with what you do, and plausibly wants to be a part of it, then you might have found your person.
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  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,510
    I agree with matthewj: providing "cover" music is a hugely important part of the job.

    Also, definitely ask them to play along with singing.
  • Years ago (decades, actually) an organ teacher of mine made the observation: churches tell us that we send them organists who can play 40 minute recitals, but can't accompany simple hymns.

    I would also present a melody and ask for an improvisation on the given melody, appropriate for various liturgical moments.
  • CCoozeCCooze
    Posts: 1,259
    Along the lines of the timing test MatthewJ mentioned, it might help to make sure that they have enough musical sense to end something (almost) immediately upon your cue.
    Some just can't seem to find a way to end something abruptly without it sounding so abrupt, while others do it so naturally that you have to wonder how they managed to end right in the middle of that phrase as though it were the written ending.
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  • You know, this isn't a game or a challenge...an organist cannot be expected to improvise unless she does it normally in playing a church service. It is extremely rare to improvise in a typical Protestant service - and they play all the verses almost all the time. So playing in a Catholic church is something they have no experience at doing. Cutting hymns short? Improvising? By making these demands, you may rule out a perfect organist by demanding them to do something they have never done?
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  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,510
    I think the issue is that these are things they will need to be able to do--skills they will need to have.

  • It is precisely because one is interviewing an organist for a Catholic church and for Catholic liturgy that one should expect the capacity for improvisation in any serious candidates. An organist who cannot improvise is inapt and inept for Catholic liturgy. Too, improvisatory skills are far from strange to many Protestant and Anglican churches, particularly the latter. It isn't as though we were asking the lady or gentleman to transpose Dieu parmi nous up a minor second or an augmented fourth at sight. The candidates for this non-titular post should be expected to display the proficiency in all areas you deem appropriate to the Catholic masses which he or she will be playing. If you accept less your liturgy will suffer and your choirs and people will be denied the quality of musicianship with which they should be blessed.
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  • Noel,

    I didn't mean to suggest a game or a challenge. I meant that since the ability to do this convincingly is, in some places, a bona fide requirement for the job - and since thinking on one's feet is an important skill, partly depending on the priest - it's not unreasonable to ask those who apply for the position to demonstrate some knowledge of Catholic liturgy (how do I play Father from the altar to the pulpit, for example, versus how do I cope with a collection of clueless EMHC not being properly organized, since I'm alone on the console and .....). The point isn't that the candidate improvise a double fugue on Oops, I did it again which will be submitted for a Paulme D'or ....but to get a sense of the tendencies of the organist, his abilities and so on.

    Put the question another way: for how many of you reading this has the liturgy never presented a surprise?
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  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    I almost never improvise and have become good at repeats and ending/cutting/pasting phrases in the works that I play. Too much of what is termed "improvising" is more like playing unpleasant, discordant chords as postludes. Put your elbows on the keys. It will sound nearly the same. Also, some silence is a good thing, not a bad one. One would think otherwise in places where musicians abhor any moment which has no activity going on.
    Thanked by 2canadash SarahJ
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,510
    It's not the musicians who require this skill of themselves, but the priests.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen canadash
  • ViolaViola
    Posts: 411
    Give them a copy of a hymn and ask them to play it a tone down. Or even a minor third.I have found it's a hugely useful skill, and congregations/cantors sing better when they don't have to screech.
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    I like Matthew's idea on improvisation. There is something especially pleasing, both as a musician and an MC downstairs (I am both, depending on the day), to ending a liturgical action and having the organist time his ending perfectly.
  • Give them a copy of a hymn and ask them to play it a tone down. Or even a minor third.I have found it's a hugely useful skill, and congregations/cantors sing better when they don't have to screech.


    I'm afraid that some overestimate the abilities even of the average Catholic organist.

    The main issue is:

    Can they play a hymn and lead the singing? Many US organists cannot, often because they are saddled with poor organ installations (of all kinds of organs) in dead buildings.

    Can they accompany chant and follow and support but not try to lead?
    Only someone who sings chant can accompany it. Few US organists have any exposure to chant.
    Thanked by 2canadash CCooze
  • Many organists do, indeed, have the limitations that Noel references.
    One, however, is seeking one of those organists who can do what is required, not shaving one's needs just to hire an organist on the basis of his or her limitations.

    With respect to Noel, I should think that we send a sad message to members of the organ profession (as well as make a sad statement about ourselves) when we let it be known that we will hire an organist who has not the qualifications for our position just because many organists don't. When they know what 'skills' are required they will learn them or (as they should) drop out.
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  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,501
    This has been rather amusing.

    Asking a lot isn't in the plans. If the organist I interview can play the hymns well and lead the singing and the chant he will have a good chance at the position. We will sing along with the hymns and throw sight reading a hymn at him. I may ask if he improvises and see him try if he says he does. That would be an added bonus.

    Of utmost importance is if he can get along with the Director of the Schola and those in the Schola. A trial period should show that. I like the idea of asking him about his best experiences.

    I think if he had all the qualifications you listed above he would run away to MatthewJ's church an apply for that position. Can't beat the weather.

    Thank you all.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    So true! You have a reasonable approach to this. Organists are in rather short supply in many parts of the country and sometimes finding good instruments to play is equally difficult. Too many want to hire an E. Power Biggs and pay him $10,000 per year, with 5 services, two choirs, and liturgy planning to deal with. Not going to happen!
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  • kenstb
    Posts: 369
    This is very interesting to read. In my experience, it is more useful to send the organist a few hymns of the type that the schola often sings for an audition. I also think it would be helpful to enlist the "titular" organist to assist you. I would steer clear of improvisation unless you have told the applicant to expect it. Most of all, I find that musicians are able to do their best when you create a relaxed environment. Good luck.
    Thanked by 2canadash CharlesW
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,510
    This page of organ school audition info is interesting https://www.agohq.org/organ-auditions-guide-2015/
  • BruceL
    Posts: 1,072
    This page of organ school audition info is interesting https://www.agohq.org/organ-auditions-guide-2015/


    I hadn't seen this. Neat.

    We are auditioning an assistant organist here. I need a day off occasionally on the weekend since I have young children, and we have some accompanied rep and big liturgies that need more than one of me. We pay AGO scale for a 1/4 time position: it's a bit difficult since the playing requirement is very high, but time is low. The good news is that, if the schedule works, you can make good money for comparatively little on-site work. The audition is:

    1) A free work or trio sonata of J.S. Bach;
    2) "lyric" piece showing musicianship, etc.
    3) contrasting piece of the auditionee's choice
    then
    1) Accompany an anthem (I usually use Rutter "The Lord is my Shepherd", not because it's my favorite, but because it has some accompanying challenges in general and in particular on our instrument);
    2) Play a hymn as if leading an enthusiastic congregation: a) intro; b) "straight" verse; c) interlude (either composed or freely improvised); d) reharmonized last verse.
    3) Play a four-voice motet in open score (5 minutes prep)
    4) Sight read a hymn with pedal (2 minutes prep).

    C'est tout. Usually a fairly accurate summation of the person's talent. Since we are in a very minority-Catholic area, I usually have to teach them how to accompany the chant, but that's fine: we usually do it unaccompanied.
  • eft94530eft94530
    Posts: 1,577
    hire an E. Power Biggs and pay him $10,000 per year

    Woohoo! My amnesia is gone!
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