Kneeling cushions for choristers
  • Heath
    Posts: 933
    We have terribly penitential flooring in our choir loft and even my 20-somethings have long wondered if we could get some cushions of some kind . . . just did some browsing and it seems that kneeling cushions are prohibitively expensive.

    Any creative solutions out there?
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    Go to a Dollar Store or equivalent, and buy the thick foam pads that are made for gardening and other tasks. They are no more than a dollar or two at most for each.
    Thanked by 5Heath MBW CHGiffen Don9of11 eft94530
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    well, I suppose if you have someone who's crafty, you really just need fabric, foam, and some sort of wood or particleboard for a bottom. I would imagine just gluing foam on particleboard, then covering in cloth then stapling into the bottom could work well.

    I don't know if they are homemade or not, but our loft floor, pew seats, and altar rail have something like that on them and they look very nice.

    Where to get supplies, I have no clue, but ask some pinterest-loving gal in the area and you might get further than you might suspect.
    Thanked by 1Heath
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Heath,

    It's an opportunity to have some small suffering to offer up. Yes, I'm quite serious. You called it penitential, so why not encourage the choir to accept this suffering?
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,942
    An opportunity that should be voluntary.

    I write that as someone who has not been able to kneel the way I once did since, 10 years ago this very winter, I got up from kneeling on a wooden floor in confession and popped my hamstring in one leg, leading within a month to compensatory injuries in the other leg and thus scars and injuries that will be with me for the rest of my life.

    I say this not out of resentment, but to avoid glossing over realities. I encourage people who *can* kneel to do so, because you may (or may not) miss the ability to do so someday. But I also encourage people to be careful. There will come a time when your body is not as resilient as you imagine it to. That will be a time to learn to accept new things you never thought you'd need to, and offer them in a daily offering.

    Yes, I'm quite serious.
    Thanked by 7Ben CharlesW CHGiffen bonniebede PaxMelodious SarahJ Choirparts
  • MBWMBW
    Posts: 175
    Related peeve: in several places I have worked, including some major churches, no provision was made for the choir to kneel. They were given chairs (without those built-in kneelers that are easily available, but more expensive) or pews (moved from somewhere else in the church after a renovation) with the kneelers removed to save space. In those situations the choir is clearly not thought of as part of the congregation for whom, in the places I have worked, provision for kneeling has always been made. In cases like these, one has to make decisions about choir posture while the congregation is kneeling. Do they stand or sit? In making the decision, one has to take into account the reverence the choir would like to show and the possibility of distraction where the choir and congregation are in differing postures.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    In cases like that MBW, I've always knelt, but I am fully aware that I am young and spry still.
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    As much as one pines for stalls and a rood screen, it is matters like this that make me grateful for my choir-loft. I allow people to adopt the posture that they are able to, since I have a wide age-range in my choir, from 8 to 88: Most kneel, some stand, some sit.

    It wouldn't be all that difficult to get some inexpensive but good-looking throw pillows that people could kneel on. Not as official as a kneeler, but it works. (Doesn't the Bishop kneel on a pillow at his faldstool before vesting?) I would, however, steer clear of corduroy if you have people (well, women) who wear skirts.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    Our choir loft has the strangest seating, ever. There are flat, backless benches, and at the back of the benches, a board slants downward at a 45 degree angle for the row behind to kneel on. We keep those foam gardening pads I mentioned above for those who want them. Many do not and just kneel on the wood. It has been like that since the building was erected in 1926. Strange and uncomfortable.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    .
    Thanked by 2canadash PaxMelodious
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    so why not encourage the choir to accept this suffering?


    My choir does as it pleases and is quite independent.
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    My choir does as it pleases and is quite independent.


    Charles,

    You don't mean it this way, but the attitude you describe among the choir might be written simply in either of the following ways:

    " I did it my way"

    "Non serviam"

  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    They sing rather well and pull together for any service or performance. However, they are a mix of unique personalities and are, as I mentioned, independent. They take musical direction well, but not much of any other kind.
  • bonniebede
    Posts: 756
    I especially liked "but ask some pinterest-loving gal " from the newly-married guy! We'll look back on his transformation fondly over the next few years..., right gals?


    Ehh...no.
    Well done Ben on noting that some activities may appeal to some genders more than others. Really, Noel, Ben's attitude is not a blast from the past but the wave of the future. Or do you really think our culture has great attitudes to gender at the moment? ;-)
    IMO one of the consequences of the dumbing down of vestmenst was that one artistic expression of beauty was closed down, and it was predominantly female textile artists who suffered. just call me an old sew and sew.
    Thanked by 2CharlesW Ben
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    @Heath

    My wife said also looking at pillow patterns could be very easy. Just use any standard pillow pattern and make it longer.
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Ben -- I thought people were joking when they announced that you recently joined the wedded state. Congratulations!
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    No joke! Married last weekend by his Excellency Bishop Robert Morlino, the Extraordinary Ordinary. Mass at the Throne in the Extraordinary Form. Pulled out all the stops!

    image
    Thanked by 5CCooze canadash Caleferink SarahJ eft94530
  • CCoozeCCooze
    Posts: 1,259
    Our choir loft actually has pews with kneelers, matching those in the church - except in front of the front pew on either side of the organ, which is more of a walk-way.
    Our CoSM at my home parish has one of those green foam gardening things that she uses when she kneels, rather than on the wooden floor.
    The lady in charge of the 9am choir uses a seat cushion (I'm not sure if it's for kneeling or for sitting, but works well, either way).
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    All,

    The point of offering up a suffering is that it not be easy or fun. It's an act of self-denial, not an act of self-actualization.

    Sure, there are old ladies and lazy young people and those with injuries and those with lack of information or formation --- but each one of us is (so I'm told) called to offer the whole of our lives to Christ, not merely that which is convenient.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    But we are never called to determine what someone else should offer up.
    Thanked by 9Daniel Bennett Page Liam M. Jackson Osborn MichaelDickson Ben CHGiffen Spriggo noel jones, aago Choirparts
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Charles,

    I didn't propose otherwise, in the specific sense.
  • Caleferink
    Posts: 429
    I believe my uncle, when he was ordained a permanent deacon, wore volleyball knee pads under his alb.
    Thanked by 1SrEleanor
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 1,945
    I’ll have to invest in those. I tore my ACL & several years ago, and the scar area from the surgery (and sometimes my knee) are tender...

    Yes, you can buy cheap foam padding. Camp sleeping pads can be cut into thirds, but they would be the right thickness (whether that’s thinner or thicker is up to you...). The thick ones also have some give that thin foam does not.

    I would also think that this might be something to bite the bullet and make or purchase kneeling cushions of some quality so that you don’t have to constantly replaxe them. But YMMV.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    .
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Noel,

    I don't see purple, so I must assume that you think that's the position I take. Not so. I'm not in the business of depriving anyone access to God's mercy and generosity.

    Would you say, to turn this about for a moment, that our society's obsession with non-competitive leagues and inclusion and all such should impact the training of our Green Berets and Special Forces?
  • WGS
    Posts: 297
    I use Velcro strap-on kneeling pads when serving as acolyte for daily E.F. Masses. That's under a robe and surplice and would work as well for a robed choir. My daughter thinks she bought them at Staples. She gave them to me for Christmas several years ago. As a matter of fact, getting up after kneeling can be the worst part of the problem if there is no substantial structure available for steadying oneself. In choir, I just stay seated.
    Thanked by 1SarahJ
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    BAN THEM FOREVER FROM DARKENING THE DOOR. It's that easy. And ban the gypsies too. Let's make a list.


    Heck yeah! They are not our kind of people. Danged heretics.
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,368
    BAN THEM FOREVER FROM DARKENING THE DOOR. .... And ban the gypsies too. Let's make a list.

    Oh! Yes, yes! A list!
    And item number one should be makers and purveyers of organ simulacra.

    (Sorry. I don't know how to do purple, but you can imagine it if you wish.)
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    Sure, there are old ladies and lazy young people and those with injuries and those with lack of information or formation...


    Old ladies in Byzantine churches are particularly dangerous. They have canes and know how to use them. I wouldn't mess with them if you know what's good for you. LOL.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    And item number one should be makers and purveyers of organ simulacra.

    . as promised, I withdraw from any discussion that is insulting.
  • David AndrewDavid Andrew
    Posts: 1,204
    I'll just put this here. Perhaps when the children are finished with their poo-throw, some adults will find this responsive and helpful . . .

    http://almy.com/Product2/zc0004995/category/ChurchSupplies/parent/WebNav-ProductCategory
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    If you want something that looks better than the gardening pads, see if your city has a foam and fabric outlet of some kind. Get the foam and see if any of your choir ladies can sew coverings. I took it from the original post that money is an issue.
    Thanked by 1CCooze
  • CCoozeCCooze
    Posts: 1,259
    I don't think I'd pay $88 for that (besides its being ugly). Why not just get 2 gardening pads each, attach them together, and sew a cover for them? That really would be pretty simple.
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • eft94530eft94530
    Posts: 1,577
    CCooze, maybe it is hiding a motor and includes a phone app.
  • Mad_Dan_EcclesMad_Dan_Eccles
    Posts: 51
    "Hassocks" - there must be someone in the USA that makes them - if not try these folks who make kits for tapestry hassocks which can be a project for the whole parish

    churchkneelers.com or their agent at churchkneelersusa.com

  • Casavant Organist
    Posts: 800
    We just sit and bow when the priest genuflects. It works, and our priest approves it.
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