Peculiar triangular noteheads

EMH

Can anyone tell me what the triangular noteheads mean? This is a solemn tone "Alma Redemptoris Mater" and these are the only two in the piece. I don't know the exact origin of this particular setting, but I was told it came from France.

Thanks and merry Christmas.

M. Jackson Osborn

Curious indeed. And there is also a square note followed by a small round one. This must be some sort of rhythmic notation.

doneill

Quilisma?

EMH

MJO, The rectangular notes are always the second of two tied notes, I've noticed. I'm pretty sure the little note is the equivalent liquescent neume.

doneill, I guess it could be. Actually I think you're right. I've never seen it written like this before.

M. Jackson Osborn

You are probably right about the liquescence.
My first thought was that this looked suspiciously like a deformed cephalicus.
What is the date of this odd example?

Kathy

Maybe it's a notation for repercussion?

bhcordova

I've posted this to another music forum I belong to

Carl D

It's where you fire the bazooka.

CHGiffen

After comparing to square notation of the Solemn Tone, I'm pretty sure the triangle noteheads are equivalent to quilismas (probably not available in the software used to engrave the music). I also suspect that the small round note at the end of the first line is a liquescent. I wish I had more to go on, however.

CHGiffen

Aha! Found it! At CantoAmbrosiano.Altervista.org

CHGiffen

And here's a recording:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIg3cQ4hzJk

EMH

MJO, I'm afriad I don't know the date. It was sent to a friend of a friend as an email attachment (supposedly from a monastery in France), and a printed copy found its way to me.

CHGiffen, here's a scan. I have the other Marian antiphons, too, some with the strange triangles.

Thanks for the comments.

chonak

Maybe it's a matter of tuning; @mrcopper might be interested.

a_f_hawkins

I notice in the Canto Ambrosiano copy, a question mark before the notes for nu in genuisti, is this a recognized symbol for "oops this should be a tone above but I didn't leave enough space in the typesetting"? It is a tone higher (the only high E in the tune) in the EMH copy. I can't play the recording to check what they think, possibly because for copyright and DRM purposes my computer thinks its in the UK.

tomjaw

a f hawkins

This chant appears to be from the Canto Ambrosiano website, It is common on that site for such figures to appear. I think it is their way of saying that manuscripts differ over those neumes.

CHGiffen

In the recording, the (question marked) podatus on the syllable "-nu" in genuisti is sung on fa-sol (rather than the question marked mi-fa), in accord with the scan provided by EMH. FWIW, I think that is the "correct" interpretation.

tomjaw

While the Solemn tone of this Marian Anthem should be well known... there are a number of differences between different usages, I have just taken the 'nu' as an example

Here is the Monastic Tone, from the Antiphonale Monasticum pg. 173,

Here is the Ambrosian tone, from the Liber Vesperalis Ambrosiano pg. 807,

Here is the Roman from the L.U. pg. 273,

N.B. For further comparisons the A.M. is available from CC Watershed, The L.V.A. can be found using google, and the L.U. is one of the books available from the CMAA.

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