Christ the King
  • Traditionally people call it the "Feast of Christ the King" however it's classified as a Solemnity. Reminds me of when the translations were changed people kept saying the old responses for over a year during Mass, but it has been a Solemnity since 1969. Why is everyone so stuck on calling it a Feast still? Anyone else get bothered by this?
  • Yes. Proper terminology should be used at all times. There is a tendency, for whatever reason, to call every Optional Memorial, Obligatory Memorial, Feast, and Solemnity, the same thing: "feast." As in, "today is the Feast of Christ the King," when yes, it's clearly a Solemnity.

    The other issue is that the classification of feasts and holy days has changed so many times during the history of the Church. They used to have 1st, 2nd, and 3rd class feast days, simples, semidoubles, and doubles, etc. That sort of thing would have intrigued me, but I know some for whom it would have been a major headache to keep track of.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,315
    I actually am bothered by people who insist on calling it a memorial, feast, or solemnity and who correct those who choose to call it a feast.

    First, the new terminology is, well, new. It also refers somewhat to what is prayed at the Mass than anything about the feast. This is less so than in the pre-1962 forms, e.g. double referred to doubling the Office antiphons. The distinction is a bit silly anyways because the Gloria is so rarely prayed in the new form, which was prayed on most III class feasts prior to the reforms.

    The English Christian word for these days is feast. To correct someone and insist on an untraditional scheme derived from the Pauline calendar, intentionally or otherwise, shows contempt for popular displays of piety.
    Thanked by 1Richard Mix
  • shows contempt for popular displays of piety.


    No contempt was intended. My understanding was that they had specific terms and we were to use them. I just think that using "feast" for everything can be quite confusing, as it doesn't really tell us anything specific about how the Mass will be.
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,471
    One reason for saying feast rather than solemnity is that people confuse the meaning of solemn with sober and long-faced. You here all know it means more candles, the better robes, more music, sometimes more overtly joyous music, (on All Saints at Westminster Cathedral 6 reliquaries on the altar) but how does it sound to us PIPs? I don't mean avoid the correct technical terms in context, which includes the listing in the newsletter or on the notice board.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,093
    "feast" is an equivocal word. It has a technical meaning in the table of precedence of liturgical days, but it also has a legitimate meaning as a common parlance usage aside from that technical meaning.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,315
    Clerget, I didn't think you did. I do find it typical of liturgy by committee, and not just the parish liturgy committee but also the Consilium and the reformed liturgy, to hold piety in contempt and being picky about “it’s a solemnity, not a feast!” is one example I have seen.
    Thanked by 1Ben
  • I must, with all due respect and in a friendly spirit, disagree with Matthew's logic in this matter. First, to imply that an 'innovation' or 'newness' is, in itself, an invalidating factor, is to tread on very slippery argumentational grounds - to propose a non sequitur as logic. An innovation may or may not be objectively good or bad for any number of proposed reasons, but it is not, sui generis, false, or valueless, or inauthentic. Second, the Church may name, alter, or change whatever it pleases in reference to liturgical celebrations and what they are called. There was a time when dubbing certain days 'doubles of the first class' and so on was an innovation. That did not invalidate such nomenclature. The Church, under the new kalendar, has chosen to name celebrations 'solemnity', 'feast', 'memorial', etc. Thusly, that is what precisely they are. The highest ranking celebrations (for the Novus Ordo) are just that, 'solemnities', not something else.

    While I really do appreciate the sentiments of those who miss 'older stuff' (as I myself often do) I think that there is a certain beauty to the current (and changeable) signifers. As for that word 'solemnity' - I think it is quite potent in description and implication of a 'feast' (if you will) on which the church expects, intends, for full liturgical 'solemnities', those being incense, a fully chanted mass, the best of music, and a sanctuary full of pious acolytes (plus a congregation primed for offering the utmost splendour and song) to be offered to the Most High. 'Solemnity' is just all that. People usually respond favourably when I explain to them (what it should not really be necessary to explain) that solemnity, solemnitas, is joy, bright jubilation. It is splendour. It is gorgeous, It is festive, very festive. Forget that dour old connotation it has in ordinary speech... street language.

    So, I would not 'correct' Matthew (or anyone else) who called a solemnity a feast. That would not be polite (unless we were close friends or felt really comfortable with one another). If he wishes to call a solemnity a feast while knowing full well that the Church has labelled it a solemnity, I shall respect that and his sentiments. But! Solemnitas still is more splendid by far that mere festivitas - at least the Church thinks so.

    (I've remarked before that I have often observed a priest shuffle into the sanctuary and announce that 'today is the solemnity of....' and proceed, without the slightest ceremony, to celebrate mass as if it were just another mass. It is astonishing that such men are entrusted with the care of the Lord's house, and are given authority over its worship. They are not competent for it.)

    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • BruceL
    Posts: 1,072
    I'd like for someone to wish me a "happy solemnity" just once.

    I'd laugh.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,093
    No, "Merry Solemnity"....

    (I prefer to send people Ash Wednesday greetings thusly: "Happy Lent! May your ashes be dark, and your Lent long.")
  • Happy Solemnity, Bruce!

    (I can hear you laughing.)

    How about joyeux solemnite'

    Or, one could be wished a solemn solemnity (meaning a very, very, very, joyful one).
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,394
    The laughing you hear, MJO, is not over "happy solemnity" or "merry solemnity." Rather, it's over today's Preface's "immensity of your majesty."
    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Most hiphop rhymin' masters would likely say in response to
    "immensity of your majesty"
    - "That's gold, Jerry, GOLD!"
    Badaboom, take my wife please, I'm here all week.
  • "Solemnity" vs. "Feast" --- they don't have to contradict each other, since at least at one level they refer to different aspects of the calendar.

    "Feast" can mean "festival", in a broader, non liturgical sense. On the Feast of St. Andrew or St. Anthony or...... whomever...... there can be celebrations beyond (ie outside of) the Mass. A great banquet -- a pig roast --- a procession, pilgrimage, visit from local bishop, or something similar.

    Solemnity, Semi-Double, etc, refer to order of liturgical precedence, thus All Saints' Day, falling on a Sunday and being a Holy Day of Obligation, took precedence over the Sunday after Pentecost. In January, the external solemnity of the Feast of St. Francis de Sales, because he is one of our patron saints, will displace Septuagesima. In places not under his patronage, Septuagesima will hold the place of precedence.

  • ...a pig roast...

    What if I preferred sauteed calve's liver with sauteed mushrooms and onions?
    Could I have that?
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    Pshaw.

    Under the old calendar (which is now back in use!), there were feasts of various classes, and they were all called feasts, and our common English usage of the term is based on that.

    It would be fussbudgetry to pretend that a perfectly sound definition of a word is wrong because the Church's bureaucracy issued some documents.
  • Pshaw.

    Yea, verily!
    Let us hear it again!
    Thanked by 1chonak
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    He said "Pshaw..and...fussbudgetry" in one post" heh heh.

    I quaver at the thought.
    Thanked by 2CharlesW CHGiffen
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,193
    I quaver at the thought.

    Indeed, at the very minim it is good to be breve with those crotchets.
    Thanked by 1melofluent
  • rogue63
    Posts: 410
    Methinks we have reached the maxima limit of these sorts of comments.
  • rogue63
    Posts: 410
    Get it---breve, longa, maxima?
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Got it, D. I've come down from my annacrucis.
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,193
    I kinda hemi-demi-semi-quavered when I wrote that.
  • rogue63
    Posts: 410
    That's certainly a longa response.
  • Imagine trying the same word play with the American system of naming notes.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Disclosure: I, for one, was trying to pinch our resident Anglophile, _ _ _.