Fatima : Falsehood No. 7
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 9,935
    From a book I am reading:

    Falsehood #7

    The Message of Fatima is a mere “private revelation” that does not impose any obligation on the members of the Church to believe it or to follow it. While paying lip service to the Message of Fatima, perhaps to humor the late John Paul II, who clearly believed in it, the Vatican Secretary of State and his collaborators have suggested that the Message of Fatima is nothing more or less than a help which is offered, but which one is not obliged to use. That is, they claim that the Church is not obliged to heed the requests of the Virgin of Fatima—including the Consecration of Russia and the widespread implementation of the Five First Saturdays devotions. Yet while they tell us that no one need believe or heed the Message of Fatima, Pope John Paul II himself declared that the Message of Fatima “imposes an obligation on the Church.”

    To demonstrate this, he had a Feast of the Virgin of Fatima inserted into the new Roman Missal, which the universal Church will celebrate on May 13 each year. Thus, according to the worldly wisdom of the Secretary of State and those who carry out his worldly policies, the Church celebrates a feast day in honor of an apparition in which no one has to believe!

    To hold that a heavenly Message warning of the loss of many souls and a great chastisement in which “various nations will be annihilated” need not be given credence if we choose to disbelieve it—even though it was authenticated by an unprecedented public miracle witnessed by 70,000 people—is the height of human folly.

    The Second World War, the Korean War, the Vietnam War, the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, the worldwide economic collapse of 2008-2009—all these are but a foretaste of what the world will suffer as the consequence of this arrogant demotion of the counsels of the Mother of God at Fatima.

    It ain't over until the "Beautiful Lady" sings.

    And a question has just presented itself to me... has the United States been annihilated yet?
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,674
    So what is the issue? The Fatima consecration has been made. However, Fatima is still a private revelation and belief in it or any other private revelation is not required. Private revelations can not contain more than the Church and sacred scripture have already revealed in public revelation which ended with the death of St. John. The conspiracy theorists have taken all this to an extreme and some have added material and drawn conclusions not in the original messages.
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 9,935

    No issue. Just an update in a book that was written in 2000 or somewhere around then. The book is online and continues to add chapters (because Fatima is STILL in motion!)

    Not sure if everyone is aware of the huge debacle over the direct confrontations of Socci and Bertone (back in 2006 or so), but it is explosive.

    It is VERY interesting that JPII and Ratzinger ditched the party line of S&B and even went public with the fact. I, to my embarrassment here, did not realize Fatima is now in the official calendar... until 30 minutes ago!

    It is also interesting that the other half of the message is still in secret.

    [note: This whole thing is because I read Socci's book yesterday (all 225 pages of it) in one sitting, and I am beside myself.] SOMETHING MUST BE DONE!
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,674
    What is the book title?
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,367
    While the liturgical commemoration of Our Lady of Fatima (May 13) was added to the General Roman Calendar with the publication of the third edition of the Missale Romanum, it does not have the rank of "feast," but of "optional memorial," just as Our Lady of Lourdes (February 11) is an optional memorial.

    The wording in Falsehood No. 7 ("To demonstrate this, he [Pope St. John Paul II] had a Feast of the Virgin of Fatima inserted into the new Roman Missal, which the universal Church will celebrate on May 13 each year.") contains two errors: the commemoration has the rank of "optional memorial," not "feast," and, being an optional memorial, the liturgical use of the Mass texts in MR3 is not obligatory but optional.
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,605
    Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith
    "The message of Fatima", 2000

    Revelation and private revelations – their theological status

    Before attempting an interpretation, the main lines of which can be found in the statement read by Cardinal Sodano on 13 May of this year at the end of the Mass celebrated by the Holy Father in Fatima, there is a need for some basic clarification of the way in which, according to Church teaching, phenomena such as Fatima are to be understood within the life of faith. The teaching of the Church distinguishes between “public Revelation” and “private revelations”. The two realities differ not only in degree but also in essence. The term “public Revelation” refers to the revealing action of God directed to humanity as a whole and which finds its literary expression in the two parts of the Bible: the Old and New Testaments. It is called “Revelation” because in it God gradually made himself known to men, to the point of becoming man himself, in order to draw to himself the whole world and unite it with himself through his Incarnate Son, Jesus Christ. It is not a matter therefore of intellectual communication, but of a life-giving process in which God comes to meet man. At the same time this process naturally produces data pertaining to the mind and to the understanding of the mystery of God. It is a process which involves man in his entirety and therefore reason as well, but not reason alone. Because God is one, history, which he shares with humanity, is also one. It is valid for all time, and it has reached its fulfilment in the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. In Christ, God has said everything, that is, he has revealed himself completely, and therefore Revelation came to an end with the fulfilment of the mystery of Christ as enunciated in the New Testament. To explain the finality and completeness of Revelation, the Catechism of the Catholic Church quotes a text of Saint John of the Cross: “In giving us his Son, his only Word (for he possesses no other), he spoke everything to us at once in this sole Word—and he has no more to say... because what he spoke before to the prophets in parts, he has now spoken all at once by giving us the All Who is His Son. Any person questioning God or desiring some vision or revelation would be guilty not only of foolish behaviour but also of offending him, by not fixing his eyes entirely upon Christ and by living with the desire for some other novelty” (No. 65; Saint John of the Cross,The Ascent of Mount Carmel, II, 22).

    Because the single Revelation of God addressed to all peoples comes to completion with Christ and the witness borne to him in the books of the New Testament, the Church is tied to this unique event of sacred history and to the word of the Bible, which guarantees and interprets it. But this does not mean that the Church can now look only to the past and that she is condemned to sterile repetition. The Catechism of the Catholic Church says in this regard: “...even if Revelation is already complete, it has not been made fully explicit; it remains for Christian faith gradually to grasp its full significance over the course of the centuries” (No. 66). The way in which the Church is bound to both the uniqueness of the event and progress in understanding it is very well illustrated in the farewell discourse of the Lord when, taking leave of his disciples, he says: “I have yet many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority... He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you” (Jn 16:12-14). On the one hand, the Spirit acts as a guide who discloses a knowledge previously unreachable because the premise was missing—this is the boundless breadth and depth of Christian faith. On the other hand, to be guided by the Spirit is also “to draw from” the riches of Jesus Christ himself, the inexhaustible depths of which appear in the way the Spirit leads. In this regard, the Catechism cites profound words of Pope Gregory the Great: “The sacred Scriptures grow with the one who reads them” (No. 94; Gregory the Great,Homilia in Ezechielem I, 7, 8). The Second Vatican Council notes three essential ways in which the Spirit guides in the Church, and therefore three ways in which “the word grows”: through the meditation and study of the faithful, through the deep understanding which comes from spiritual experience, and through the preaching of “those who, in the succession of the episcopate, have received the sure charism of truth” (Dei Verbum, 8).

    In this context, it now becomes possible to understand rightly the concept of “private revelation”, which refers to all the visions and revelations which have taken place since the completion of the New Testament. This is the category to which we must assign the message of Fatima. In this respect, let us listen once again to the Catechism of the Catholic Church: “Throughout the ages, there have been so-called ‘private' revelations, some of which have been recognized by the authority of the Church... It is not their role to complete Christ's definitive Revelation, but to help live more fully by it in a certain period of history” (No. 67). This clarifies two things:

    1. The authority of private revelations is essentially different from that of the definitive public Revelation. The latter demands faith; in it in fact God himself speaks to us through human words and the mediation of the living community of the Church. Faith in God and in his word is different from any other human faith, trust or opinion. The certainty that it is God who is speaking gives me the assurance that I am in touch with truth itself. It gives me a certitude which is beyond verification by any human way of knowing. It is the certitude upon which I build my life and to which I entrust myself in dying.

    2. Private revelation is a help to this faith, and shows its credibility precisely by leading me back to the definitive public Revelation. In this regard, Cardinal Prospero Lambertini, the future Pope Benedict XIV, says in his classic treatise, which later became normative for beatifications and canonizations: “An assent of Catholic faith is not due to revelations approved in this way; it is not even possible. These revelations seek rather an assent of human faith in keeping with the requirements of prudence, which puts them before us as probable and credible to piety”. The Flemish theologian E. Dhanis, an eminent scholar in this field, states succinctly that ecclesiastical approval of a private revelation has three elements: the message contains nothing contrary to faith or morals; it is lawful to make it public; and the faithful are authorized to accept it with prudence (E. Dhanis,Sguardo su Fatima e bilancio di una discussione, in La Civiltà Cattolica 104 [1953], II, 392-406, in particular 397). Such a message can be a genuine help in understanding the Gospel and living it better at a particular moment in time; therefore it should not be disregarded. It is a help which is offered, but which one is not obliged to use.

  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 9,935

    Thank you for the clarification about the feast not being a feast, but a memorial. The celebration of the liturgy may be optional, but I would dare to say the words of the Virgin and her warning are not. In fact, each time we have NOT fulfilled her requests, she gave us an ultimatum that each time was born out in history, starting with two world wars.

    And now we are approaching, very quickly, the last condition.
  • bhcordovabhcordova
    Posts: 1,081
    Francis - This book is all conspiracy theory. Sr. Lucia even confirmed that the third secret of Fatima had been fully revealed. If anyone should know, it would be her, since the Blessed Mother entrusted it to her.
    Thanked by 1Gavin
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 9,935

    I inherited the entire Marian library of Fr. Henry Hughes in the early 1990s who started the Blue Army in Baltimore. Each book and author confirms what the other had stated. It took me ten years, but I read all of the books on Fatima that were written over a span of decades that were in this library. I then began a work of mercy and reparation on the First Saturday of each month that lasted for a number of years, including composing a Mass for the same purpose. It was aired numerous times on EWTN as Mother A. knew the seriousness of our plight.

    This book by Socci is not a conspiracy theory. It is a fact by fact dismantling of the cover up that we were told the entire secret (year 2000). We have known for decades that there are two parts of the third secret. It is fully documented and we have studied this all along.

    PS. Lucia never said what you claim. That was/is a deception by the same party.
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 9,935

    It is not as simple as public or private.

    Perhaps I can offer you a wider view on the matter:

    Many are familiar with two kinds of revelation: General revelation revealed in Scripture and Tradition and which ended with Christ and the apostles (also called the “Deposit of Faith”), and private revelation which God occasionally gives to certain individuals. The Deposit of Faith binds all men (what God wills all to believe and do for salvation), while private revelation binds only the person to whom the communication was directed (what God may additionally require of an individual person).

    There is a third type of revelation, however, called public prophetic revelation, or public prophecy. It is unique in that God gives it through a prophet after the apostolic age, but intends the message for all of humanity. To deny the existence of public prophetical revelation would mean that God cannot continue to communicate with humanity after the period of general revelation on matters that affect their salvation. That, of course, is not true. Scripture reveals that God will in fact continue to speak to us during the Church age.

    God reveals through the prophet Joel: “And upon my servants indeed, and upon my handmaids will I pour out in those days my spirit, and they shall prophesy.”Such prophesy is not limited to the period of general revelation. Scripture teaches us that prophets existed in the Church after Christ’s ascension into Heaven, which means that prophets can exist in the Church today. Further, St. Paul says in Ephesians 2 that the Church is “Built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone.” He also says, “And God indeed hath set some in the church; first apostles, secondly prophets, thirdly doctors; after that miracles” (1Cor 12:28). Just as the Church is built upon the apostles and their successors (the bishops), the Church is also built upon the prophets of the New Testament. These prophets include Lucia, Jacinta, Francisco and, of course, the Queen of Prophets, the Blessed Virgin Mary. Hence, God continues to speak to the Church through His prophets, and when He does, we are obligated to listen and obey.

    St. Thomas Aquinas elaborates by teaching that God sends prophets throughout the Church age to guide human actions to further His plan of salvation. So when God intervenes in human history with prophetic revelations, He is telling us what we must do to save our souls. Those who listen and obey will be saved. Those who hear and deliberately disobey will be damned, as Scripture says in Proverbs 28:19, “When prophecy shall fail, the people shall be scattered abroad.” This revelation is confirmed by the Message of Fatima, which is a message of salvation or damnation, depending upon the actions of men (and especially the Pope). In fact, divine revelation (the first type) requires us to obey public prophetic revelation (the third type), because public prophetic revelation echoes and affirms divine revelation. God Himself imposes the obligation.

    St. Paul says, “Extinguish not the spirit. Despise not prophecies. But prove all things; hold fast that which is good” (1Thess 5:19-20). St. Paul is referring to this third type of revelation, that is, public prophetic revelation. He says that if the prophecy is “proved” to be “good,” then we must “hold fast” to it. The Church has indeed tested the Fatima prophecies, including its accompanying miracles and accurate predictions of future events, and found them to come from God. Every single Pope since Our Lady appeared has affirmed the divine truth of Fatima. On the 90th anniversary of Fatima, Pope Benedict XVI even stated, “The apparitions of Our Lady of Fatima…are without a doubt, the most prophetic of all modern apparitions.”

    Therefore, the Deposit of Faith and the dogmatic teaching of the Church obligate us to believe and obey approved public prophecy, which includes the Fatima prophecies above all. If we don’t, St. Paul says we “extinguish the spirit,” that is, we resist the Holy Ghost. In light of the Scripture, Lucia even said that despising the Fatima message is a sin against the Holy Ghost, and Jesus revealed that this is the unpardonable sin. This is why Pope John Paul II, on the 65th anniversary of Fatima, declared that “the Message (of Fatima) imposes an obligation on the Church.” Private revelations impose no such obligation.

    As I suggested, those who call Fatima a mere “private revelation” are generally people who either do not believe in the Fatima apparitions, or are trying to somehow mitigate the gravity of the Popes’ failures to implement the divine mandates in the Message. This is a common opinion on mainstream Catholic radio and television. As Catholics, these people are embarrassed by the actions, or in this case, the inactions of the Popes, and rightly so. But that is no excuse for obfuscating the truth. Whatever their motivation, to argue that Fatima is a “private revelation” is lunacy at best, and a lie at worst. As Bishop Rudolph Graber said plainly: “A careful distinction should be made between personal revelation and those where the message is declared to be for mankind at large. The former can with equanimity be ignored. But the latter must be taken seriously. And Fatima belongs to this category.”

    We can see that the Fatima Message is by its very terms addressed to the entire world, both Catholics and non- Catholics alike, which means it is not a private revelation. We see this universal application in both the spiritual and material chastisements warned of by Our Lady. For example, we see the reality of hell which is the eternal destiny of all men who die without the grace of Jesus Christ. To save them from hell, God wishes to establish throughout the “world” devotion to Our Lady’s Immaculate Heart – a devotion which exists only in the Catholic Church, and which demonstrates that only through the Catholic Church can man be saved. As Lucia later explains, Jesus said to her that “I want My whole Church to acknowledge the consecration as a Triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary so that it may extend its cult later on and place the devotion to this Immaculate Heart beside the devotion to My Sacred Heart.” As the Message applies to all men, Our Lady instructs us to pray for our own souls (save “us” from the fires of hell) and “all souls” who “are in most need” (those who are outside the Church or have fallen away through sin). Indeed, the spiritual Message of Fatima is universal. It is nothing less than the Gospel itself, for it concerns the salvation of souls. This is precisely why Pope John Paul II stated that “The Message (of Fatima) is addressed to every human being.”

  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 9,935
    We also see the universality of the material chastisements warned of in the Secret. Our Lady reveals that if mankind does not cease offending God through sin, God will “punish the world” through wars, famine, and persecutions of the Church. Our Lady also reveals that if Her requests are not heeded, Russia will spread its errors “throughout the world,” causing wars, martyrdoms, and the annihilation of various nations. Again, the Message of Fatima is addressed to the world, for the world is the object of the prophecy, and thus the world will experience the benefits and burdens of the prophecy commensurate with the world’s response (and, in particular, the Pope’s response) to Heaven’s requests. There is nothing private about revelations that have and will continue to impact the entire world.

    And then we have the Miracle of the Sun; the only pre- announced public miracle of its kind in the history of the world. Never before has God announced in advance a miracle that was to be performed publicly on a specific date, and especially for the purpose of confirming a prophetic message intended for all of humanity and silencing God’s enemies. Even the greatest miracle of all time - the resurrection of Our Lord Jesus Christ – was not a public miracle of this magnitude, that is, the risen Jesus did not appear to tens of thousands of people at once to convert them to belief. Moreover, the cosmological magnitude of the miracle is unprecedented. Even the miracle of Joshua’s long day (see Jos 10:12-14), where God stopped the orbit of the sun around the Earth for 24 hours, seems to pale in comparison to the same sun dancing in the sky, transmitting an array of brilliant colors, and then plunging to the Earth as if to consume it in its fire, before returning to its position in the Heavens.

    And we also note it was not just the celestial miracle, but also the other material and spiritual miracles that occurred instantly, such has the drying of the ground and people's clothing due to the falling of the sun to the Earth, which according to the natural law would not have dried but would have incinerated the people; we also recall the immediate conversions of atheists and other anti-clericals to Jesus Christ and His one true Church, the Catholic Church.

    Why this unprecedented miracle? For an obvious reason: Because the Message of Fatima is unprecedented, in both its blessings and chastisements for the entire world. When the Pope finally consecrates Russia – probably the most diabolical nation on Earth – that nation will convert to the Catholic Faith and there will be a period of peace. Until then, Russia will spread her errors, persecute the Church, lead souls to damnation, and possibly enslave the entire world to Communism. Lucia said that this enslavement would include the United States. And what has recently occurred under the Obama administration? Provisions that make public protesting a felony, that allow for the declaration of martial law in times of peace, that have implemented the erection of FEMA concentration camps on US soil, and legislation authorizing the indefinite detention of US citizens without any due process whatsoever. Russia’s errors have already spread to America.

    The Miracle of the Sun has no precedent because the blessings and curses of the Fatima Secret have no precedent in world history. There is a logical correspondence between the magnitude of the grace and the magnitude of the punishment for refusing the grace. God is telling us that we must believe in Fatima, if not for the words of the seers, then for the Miracle of the Sun. As Jesus said, “But if I do, though you will not believe me, believe the works: that you may know and believe that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.

    The First Vatican Council affirmed that God performs miracles during the Church age, like at Fatima, to elicit our obedience of faith: “However, in order that the “obedience” of our faith should be “consonant with reason” [cf. Rom. 12:1], God has willed that to the internal aids of the Holy Spirit there should be joined external proofs of His revelation, namely: divine facts, especially miracles and prophecies which, because they clearly show forth the omnipotence and infinite knowledge of God, are most certain signs of a divine revelation, and are suited to the intelligence of all.”

    Because the Miracle of the Sun is “a most certain sign of a divine revelation,” the prophetic revelation of Fatima must be believed as a matter of faith and reason. The same council condemned anyone who says “that divine revelation cannot be made credible by external signs” and “that miracles are not possible, and hence all accounts of them…are to be banished among the fables and myths; or, that miracles can never be known with certitude.”Note that the council condemns anyone who dismisses “accounts” of true miracles, even if they have not witnessed them firsthand. This means that any Catholic who denies the Miracle of the Sun and the Message of Fatima is anathema, according to the dogmatic teachings of the First Vatican Council.

    Scripture also reveals that miracles obligate us to believe, and if we don’t, we risk everlasting punishment. For example, Jesus condemned the entire cities of Corozain, Bethsaida and Capharnaum for failing to repent on account of His miracles: Woe to thee, Corozain, woe to thee, Bethsaida: for if in Tyre and Sidon had been wrought the miracles that have been wrought in you, they had long ago done penance in sackcloth and ashes. But I say unto you, it shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon in the day of judgment, than for you. And thou Capharnaum, shalt thou be exalted up to Heaven? thou shalt go down even unto hell. For if in Sodom had been wrought the miracles that have been wrought in thee, perhaps it had remained unto this day. But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee” (Mt 11:21-24).

    This is a sobering passage. Jesus said if the people of Sodom and Gomorrah had seen the miracles He performed in other cities, they may have converted. Yet God chose not to convert the people of those cities through miracles, but rather destroy them in fire and brimstone for their sins. Jude confirms that the people of Sodom and Gomorrah are “suffering the punishment of eternal fire” for their sins of sodomy and lesbianism (Jude 7). Because the people of Corozain, Bethsaida and Capharnaum did see Jesus’ miracles and still did not repent, God condemned them even more harshly, by sending them “down even unto hell,” to the lowest pit of hell.

    The Jews told Jesus they would believe Him if they “would see a sign” from Him (Mt 12:38). In fact, “they asked him to shew them a sign from Heaven” (Mt 16:1). God reserved that “sign from Heaven” for our time, in fact, the greatest sign that He has publicly performed in the history of the world. How much more culpable will we be for dismissing Fatima as an optional, “private revelation” that we can take or leave as we wish, and not a public prophetic revelation confirmed by the Miracle of the Sun, thus requiring our immediate and unconditional obedience?

  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 9,935
    We also note that Pope Pius XII also received a private revelation of this miracle on four separate days while walking the Vatican Gardens (October 30-31, November 1 and 8, 1950). He wrote: “I have seen the ‘miracle of the sun’, this is the pure truth” (Pius XII Saw ‘Miracle of the Sun’, Zenit, November 4, 2008). It has also been reported (although unverified) that Pope John Paul II, while recovering in Gemelli Hospital in 1981 had a similar revelation of the miracle and was even visited by Our Lady who authenticated the Fatima Message for him. Additionally, The Vatican Insider recently reported a similar solar phenomenon and its connection to Fatima during Pope Benedict XVI’s recent visit to Benin, Africa in November 2011. So, at least Pius XII, and possibly John Paul II and Benedict XVI, received further revelations confirming the authenticity of Fatima and their obligation to consecrate Russia but failed to obey the command.

    But there are other unprecedented supernatural events associated with Fatima. We recall the revelation to Lucia at Tuy, Spain on June 13, 1929 when God revealed to Lucia a vision of the Blessed Trinity as He commanded the consecration of Russia. Not since Christ’s baptism in the Jordan, when the Father spoke and the Holy Ghost descended from Heaven as a dove, has God visibly manifested His Trinitarian nature to man. The revelation of the Blessed Trinity at Christ’s baptism was so extraordinary it was recorded in all four Gospels. Now, in 1929, God chooses to reveal It again, this time to a 20th century prophet, with even more mystical meaning, to confirm His request for the papal consecration of Russia (note that Our Lady says “God asks the Holy Father” for the consecration). As if the Miracle of the Sun were not enough to authenticate the Message of Fatima and the absolute necessity of consecrating Russia for world peace and the salvation of many souls, God wished to seal the official request for the consecration with what Frere Michel calls a “Trinitarian Theophany” never before witnessed in the history of the world.

    The other extraordinary event associated with the Fatima consecration is known as The Great Sign. Only this spectacle was not witnessed by 70,000 people. Rather, it was seen by millions of people throughout Western Europe. We recall that when Our Lady revealed the request for the consecration of Russia on July 13, 1917, she stated, “The war is going to end; but if people do not cease offending God, a worse one will break out during the reign of Pius XI. When you see a night illumined by an unknown light, know that this is the great sign given you by God that He is about to punish the world for its crimes by means of war, famine, and persecutions of the Church and of the Holy Father.” The Mother of Mercy not only provided the solution for preventing World War II (the Consecration of Russia), but also provided a sign to warn the world of the forthcoming punishments of that war if the Pope disobeyed Her request. This “great sign” – which Lucia confirmed in her Third Memoir - appeared in the Heavens on January 25, 1938. It was an astonishing phenomenon which Lucia believed was of supernatural origin, which appeared as blood-red fire in the sky, portending of a universal conflagration to inflict mankind for its sins, just as Our Lady predicted As with the Miracle of the Sun, the eye-witness testimony of the Great Sign is extensive and consistent (only in this case, there were millions of witnesses).

    As Our Lady warned, the Great Sign signified that World War II was about to begin and result in the greatest bloodshed humanity had ever seen because the Popes have failed to consecrate Russia. Lenin had already murdered twenty million people in his seven-year reign of Communist terror. Now, in the absence of the papal consecration of Russia, Stalin would go on to murder forty-six million more in less than thirty years. Mao Tse- tung and his Chinese Communist Party would also slaughter seventy million people. That is over 150 million people murdered under the regimes of only three men. Fifty million people died in World War II, and Gorbachev and the Kremlin became responsible for many millions more. If Fatima is just a private revelation, how do we explain Our Lady’s accurate prediction of such PUBLIC massacres unlike anything ever witnessed in world history?

    Like the Miracle of the Sun, Our Lady predicted the “what and when” of World War II, as well as the name of the future Pope (Pius XI) who would be reigning at the time the war commenced (the historical record shows that World War II officially commenced when Hitler invaded Austria in January 1938, during the reign of Pius XI). Of course, the accurate prediction of future events (as Our Lady did with both the Miracle of the Sun and the Great Sign) is another proof of authentic prophecy, for it communicates divine knowledge that is inaccessible to human beings in the natural order.

    We note that Our Lady describes this prophetic celestial event as the “Great Sign.” This is the same terminology St. John the Apostle (to whom Our Lord entrusted Our Lady) used to describe his vision of Mary in the Heavens. In Apocalypse 12:1, St. John says “And a great sign appeared in Heaven: A woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.” Note also that the woman – the Blessed Virgin Mary – has dominion over the celestial bodies (she is “clothed” with the sun and has the moon “under her feet”). Clearly, this apocalyptic vision connects “the woman clothed with the sun” to Our Lady of Fatima, who the Fatima visionaries said came to them from the sky, who performed the Miracle of the Sun, and who is the true “Great Sign” in the Heavens according to St. John the Apostle.

    In his encyclical Signum Magnum (Latin, “Great Sign”), issued on May 13, 1967 – the 50th anniversary of Fatima – Pope Paul VI made this same connection. After referring to the “great sign” of Apocalypse 12:1 as “the august Mother of God,” he refers to the same “Virgin Mother of God in Fatima” whose anniversary is being celebrated by the Church. Hence, Pope Paul VI teaches that the woman of the Apocalypse is Our Lady of Fatima, by writing an encyclical to commemorate Fatima called the “Great Sign,” and connecting Our Lady of Fatima to the Woman clothed with the sun.
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 9,935
    In his June 4, 1951 discourse to Portuguese pilgrims while recalling his episcopal consecration on May 13, 1917, Pope Pius XII also referred to Our Lady as “the great Woman who is Victorious in all the battles of God”, which is a clear reference to Apocalypse 12:1. At the October 13, 1951 pilgrimage Mass in Fatima, Cardinal Tedeschini in his sermon made the same connection by preaching “Mary, ‘clothed with the sun.’”

    While Fatima is clearly a public prophetic revelation which obliges belief, if “the woman clothed with the sun” is Our Lady of Fatima, then Fatima also pertains to general revelation. While it is unnecessary to make that case to require belief in Fatima (belief is already morally obligatory), the case is worthy of consideration, based on Scripture and the teachings of Pope Paul VI, as well as Pope John Paul II.

    Like Paul VI, John Paul II also connected Our Lady of Fatima to Apocalypse 12. On May 13, 2000 – the 83rd anniversary of Fatima and the beatification of Francisco and Jacinta – the Pope said: “The Message of Fatima is a call to conversion, alerting humanity to have nothing to do with the ‘dragon’ whose ‘tail swept down a third of the stars of Heaven, and cast them to the earth” (Apoc 12:4). It is a common theological opinion that “the stars of Heaven” refer to the Catholic clergy, the consecrated souls who are entrusted with illuminating our path to Heaven. However, in the first two parts of the Secret, there is nothing about the devil overcoming consecrated souls. This, as we know, means there is more to the “Message of Fatima” than the Vatican has formally released. John Paul II knew the Third Secret of Fatima (he read it shortly after his election in 1978), and alluded to its contents by explaining that Apocalypse 12 is a battle between Our Lady of Fatima and Satan for souls, particularly consecrated souls. Sister Lucia also confirmed this connection between Our Lady, Apocalypse 12, the Third Secret, and the fall of consecrated souls in her interview with Father Augustin Fuentes, who was the postulator of the causes for beatification of Francisco and Jacinta.

    Based on Scripture, the teachings of the Popes, and the explanations of the Fatima visionary, one can certainly present a worthy case that Our Lady of Fatima is revealed in divine revelation, particularly Apocalypse 12. Of course, no one can prove “the woman clothed with the sun” is not Our Lady of Fatima, but that is beside the point. If Fatima is the fulfillment of biblical prophecy – which is supported by the teachings of both Paul VI and John Paul II – then Fatima pertains to general revelation. At the very beginning of Scripture, God reveals the decisive battle between Our Lady and the devil, and that Our Lady will be victorious. To “the dragon,” God declares: “I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shall lie in wait for her heel” (Gen 3:15). Scripture concludes with the same battle: “And the dragon was angry against the woman: and went to make war with the rest of her seed, who keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ” (Apoc 12:17). Hence, the bookends of Sacred Scripture (Genesis and Apocalypse), like the Secret of Fatima, reveal the battle between the dragon and the woman and Her seed.

    Tragically, and mysteriously, each of the seven Popes (from Pius XI to Benedict XVI) who had the responsibility to consecrate Russia has not obeyed Our Lady’s request. As a result of their disobedience, the world in the 20th century has experienced the worst material chastisements in the history of mankind. We have seen tens of millions of people die in World War II, which was followed by further bloodshed in the Korean War and Vietnam War. There have been many bloody revolutions in Africa, Latin America and Southeast Asia, and endless conflicts in Israel and Palestine. More lives have been lost in the Iraqi wars and the terrorist attacks of 9/11. In short, the last hundred years have been the bloodiest in world history, with more casualties from war than all of the other centuries of recorded history combined. The gravest war has been on the unborn, where 50 million babies are murdered each year in abortion.

    While these material chastisements are shocking to the conscience, the spiritual chastisements are far graver, for they have eternal, not just temporal consequences. Since the Second Vatican Council, which I have in prior conferences demonstrated is at the heart of the Third Secret of Fatima, there has been a crisis in the Catholic Church. Millions of Catholics have defected from the Faith, including countless priests and religious. There have been unprecedented and inexplicable changes in the Church’s liturgy, theology and discipline, and an incomprehensible pedophilia scandal among the Catholic clergy. Pope Paul VI lamented the effects of Vatican II by describing the resulting “auto-demolition of the Church” and declaring that “the smoke of Satan has entered into the Temple of God.” In his invocation to Our Lady of Fatima, Pope John Paul II recognized that the “very bases of our salvation is being undermined.” Pope Benedict XVI, also in connection with the Fatima prophecies, has even stated that “the greatest persecution of the Church does not come from outside enemies, but is from sin in the Church.” Ironically, all of these chastisements, both material and spiritual, were prophesied by Our Lady of Fatima, and are tied to the Popes’ failures to consecrate Russia to Our Lady’s Immaculate Heart.

    It is a very serious matter to accuse a Pope of failing to heed God’s command (that is, for failing to obey His command to consecrate Russia). We are certainly aware of the gravity of the accusation. After all, the Pope is the successor of Peter and the Supreme Pastor of the Church. That means no one has jurisdiction over the Pope but God Himself, and thus the Pope is accountable to God alone. From my perspective, for anyone to justifiably accuse a Pope of disobedience means the Pope must have in fact disobeyed God, His only Judge, and in a formal and public way. The charge cannot presume to know the Pope’s motivations for disobeying God (e.g., whether he is acting with malice), only that he did disobey. The charge cannot be based on mere inference or speculation. It must be based on fact. As St. Thomas says, “against a fact there is no argument” (contra factum non argumentum est). We humbly submit that this book presents those facts, clearly and convincingly, against which there is no argument. Those facts are the very words and actions of the Popes themselves, which carry our burden of proof.

    St. Thomas teaches that disobedience to the command of a superior is a mortal sin:

    “Again, the commandments of God contain the precept of obedience to superiors. Wherefore also disobedience to the commands of a superior is a mortal sin, as being contrary to the love of God, according to Romans 13:2, ‘He that resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God.’ It is also contrary to the love of our neighbor, as it withdraws from the superior who is our neighbor the obedience that is his due.”
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 9,935
    The Pope, of course, owes absolute obedience to God who has commanded him to consecrate Russia. But the Pope also owes obedience to the Mother of God, whose authority to order the consecration of Russia comes from God Himself. Moreover, because Our Lady is Queen of Heaven and Earth and Mother of all Christians, She has royal and maternal authority over all the members of the Body, including the Pope. In fact, the Message of Fatima is an exercise of Our Lady’s authority over the Church. Therefore, She is the Pope’s Superior, and he must obey Her commands lest he “resisteth the ordinance of God.” While only his confessor can judge the Pope’s moral culpability, in the objective moral order, the Pope’s failure to heed Heaven’s command is a mortal sin against charity, for it is “contrary to the love of God and neighbor,” compounded by the countless millions of souls that have been lost as a result.

    Not only is the failure to consecrate Russia a grave sin against charity, it is also an objective mortal sin against the theological virtue of faith. Sins against the faith are the gravest of all sins. The great theologian Adolphus Tanquerey confirms the consensus of the Fathers and Doctors of the Church that one who receives a private revelation with clear evidence that it comes from God must believe it with the same theological virtue of faith as he believes public revelation (the Deposit of Faith). This common opinion is based on Scripture itself, which provides many examples of God giving private revelations to people which obligated them to believe and respond in divine faith (such as Noah, Abraham, Moses, St. Joseph, etc.). If, for example, Noah refused to obey God’s revelation to build the ark to save his family, Noah would have mortally sinned against the supernatural virtue of faith (not to mention been responsible for the seven other souls that may have been lost due to his disobedience).

    This is why St. Paul says in chapter 11 of his epistle to the Hebrews: “By faith Noe, having received an answer concerning those things which as yet were not seen, moved with fear, framed the ark for the saving of his house, by the which he condemned the world; and was instituted heir of the justice which is by faith.” He is talking about the theological virtue of faith. St. Paul also praises Abraham, Sara, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses and others for responding to private revelations “by faith” (a phrase St. Paul repeatedly uses in this chapter to describe their responses to these revelations). This is also why, for example, we read in Luke’s Gospel that God struck Zachariah dumb and unable to speak. Zachariah sinned against the faith by failing to believe God’s private revelation through the angel concerning the conception and mission of his son St. John the Baptist (see Lk 1:11- 20). While many other examples could be provided, it suffices to say that a person is bound to believe as a matter of supernatural faith a revelation he knows comes from God, as Scripture itself reveals. Further, because the nature of God’s supernatural revelation (whether public or private) is always serious (it pertains to salvation), failing to act upon that revelation is always grave matter in the objective moral order.

    As we have seen, Fatima is not a mere “private” revelation. Rather, Fatima is a public prophecy which impacts the Church and the entire world. The Church has affirmed that the Fatima revelations have come from Heaven and are meant for every individual. Hence, if a private revelation binds the individual recipient to act as directed under pain of mortal sin, how much more does a public prophecy, divinely ratified by the greatest celestial miracle of all time, bind the Pope to act as directed under pain of mortal sin, especially when he is the Vicar of Christ whose actions will affect not only himself, but the entire Church and millions, perhaps even billions of souls? We can only shudder at the enormity of what’s at stake. Indeed, the Popes’ failures to consecrate Russia as Our Lady has commanded constitutes an objective moral evil and a mortal sin against divine faith (leaving the question of culpability, to God), especially when these same Popes have publicly proclaimed that Fatima and the command to consecrate Russia comes from God Himself.

    To our critics who will say this book brings scandal to the Church, we must remember that we are judging facts, not Popes; we are judging decisions, not persons (whoever would say we are personally judging the Pope would be guilty of slander). While the evidence may – and should – cause scandal, we refer our critics to the counsel of Pope St. Gregory the Great: “It is better that scandal arise than that the truth be hidden”; and, Pope St. Felix III: “Not to oppose error is to approve it, and not to defend truth is to suppress it.” Jesus says, “the truth shall make you free” (Jn 8:32). While documenting the Popes’ failures to obey a simple request from Heaven may cause scandal among the faithful, the charge is as true as it is grave, and “We ought to obey God, rather than men” (Acts 5:29).

    We also refer our critics to the law of the Church. Canon law not only gives us the right, but even imposes upon us the duty, according to our knowledge and competence, to manifest our views to the sacred Pastors on matters which concern the good of the Church. This right includes making our views known to the Christian faithful, as this book does (can. 212 §2-3). The Church’s law further recognizes that lay people are bound by the obligation to strive so that the divine message of salvation may be known and accepted by all people throughout the world (can. 225 §1). We have taken that duty seriously. Fatima concerns the good of the Church and humanity. Fatima is the divine message of salvation for our time. Fatima imposes an obligation on us all. Yet, the most critical component of the Message – the Consecration of Russia – has been ignored. For too long. As the saying goes, the Popes have fiddled while Rome burns. And as the Church of Rome goes, so goes the world.

    But allow me to end this presentation with hope. After our Fatima Challenge conference in 2010, during which time Fr. Gruner, Christopher Ferrara and I had the opportunity to cross-examine Giuseppe De Carli (Cardinal Bertone’s co-author and spokesman) and solicit more evidence for our position, the Pope, several days later, completely reversed the Vatican’s position which had said that Fatima is a thing of the past. The Pope confirmed that the prophecy of the Third Secret continues to unfold, that it relates to the corruption of the Catholic clergy, and if anyone were to believe the prophetic mission of Fatima is over would be deluding himself.

    Author, John Salsa, Rome 2012
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,605
    That's Salsa's opinion, but it's not been taught in any binding way on the faithful.
    Thanked by 2rich_enough Gavin
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 9,935
    Liam--It is not just Salsa's opinion, but he speaks for many of us who are devoted to Our Lady and her pleas, not only through Fatima, which is her greatest sign and attempt to correct us, but her other maternal corrections that she has so often offered to us.

    The Arian heresey is just one reminder of the catastrophe of doing and saying nothing when the shepherds are negligent in their duties to guide, protect and nurture souls in the Faith. We each will still be held culpable EVEN if our leaders do not hold us or themselves to the truth.

    For those that have been given the understanding there is no longer any excuse. As is quoted above (and in the scriptures-see below), Aquinas makes clear the responsibility that is given to each of us to make sure our shepherds follow and adhere to the faith. God only laughs at us if we think we can claim the fifth amendment on heaven. But his laughing will then turn to be the crushing weight of justice which we are about to endure. (or, more frightfully, NOT able to endure)

    And BECAUSE it has not been taught in any binding way on the faithful as you say, THAT is precisely the reason, my dear friend, we are speaking out as a multitude, even if it is only a remnant. It is precisely why we are suffering the fateful crisis in which we find ourselves: the crisis of faith in the church, and the presence of so much darkness and evil that grips the entire world and the loss of hundreds of millions of souls through wars, persecutions and the ultimate atrocity of abortion of those whose blood cries out to heaven.

    Exhortation to constancy under their crosses. The danger of abusing the graces of the New Testament.

    [1] And therefore we also having so great a cloud of witnesses over our head, laying aside every weight and sin which surrounds us, let us run by patience to the fight proposed to us:[2] Looking on Jesus, the author and finisher of faith, who having joy set before him, endured the cross, despising the shame, and now sitteth on the right hand of the throne of God. [3] For think diligently upon him that endured such opposition from sinners against himself; that you be not wearied, fainting in your minds. [4] For you have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin: [5] And you have forgotten the consolation, which speaketh to you, as unto children, saying: My son, neglect not the discipline of the Lord; neither be thou wearied whilst thou art rebuked by him.

    [6] For whom the Lord loveth, he chastiseth; and he scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.[7] Persevere under discipline. God dealeth with you as with his sons; for what son is there, whom the father doth not correct? [8] But if you be without chastisement, whereof all are made partakers, then are you bastards, and not sons. [9] Moreover we have had fathers of our flesh, for instructors, and we reverenced them: shall we not much more obey the Father of spirits, and live? [10] And they indeed for a few days, according to their own pleasure, instructed us: but he, for our profit, that we might receive his sanctification.

    [11] Now all chastisement for the present indeed seemeth not to bring with it joy, but sorrow: but afterwards it will yield, to them that are exercised by it, the most peaceable fruit of justice.[12] Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees, [13] And make straight steps with your feet: that no one, halting, may go out of the way; but rather be healed.[14] Follow peace with all men, and holiness: without which no man shall see God. [15]Looking diligently, lest any man be wanting to the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up do hinder, and by it many be defiled.

    [16] Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau; who for one mess, sold his first birthright. [17] For know ye that afterwards, when he desired to inherit the benediction, he was rejected; for he found no place of repentance, although with tears he had sought it. [18] For you are not come to a mountain that might be touched, and a burning fire, and a whirlwind, and darkness, and storm, [19] And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words, which they that heard excused themselves, that the word might not be spoken to them: [20] For they did not endure that which was said: And if so much as a beast shall touch the mount, it shall be stoned.

    [21] And so terrible was that which was seen, Moses said: I am frighted, and tremble. [22] But you are come to mount Sion, and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to the company of many thousands of angels, [23] And to the church of the firstborn, who are written in the heavens, and to God the judge of all, and to the spirits of the just made perfect,[24] And to Jesus the mediator of the new testament, and to the sprinkling of blood which speaketh better than that of Abel. [25] See that you refuse him not that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spoke upon the earth, much more shall not we, that turn away from him that speaketh to us from heaven.

    Hebrews 12:1-25
  • bhcordovabhcordova
    Posts: 1,081
    From the Blue Army website:

    Speculation about the secret of Fatima will never end. But the Church has told us:
    1. There is only one secret.
    2. The secret contains three parts.
    3. With the revelation of its third part to the world in 2000 the entirety of the secret has now been revealed.

    The definitive Church document on the secret of Fatima was published by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. We encourage everyone to read it here: Secret of Fatima.

    People can either devote their time to prayer, penance and sacrifice in reparation for sin and for the conversion of sinners as Our Lady asked at Fatima, or engage in endless debate over matters upon which Holy Mother Church has already decided and proclaimed. We encourage those who opt for distractions to seriously consider what might be their genesis, and whether or not their engagement in them serves Our Lady’s Fatima objectives.
  • It seems to me that the distinction here is that the Message of Fatima is an exhortation to believe the Gospel, as opposed to creating new conditions for belief. But I could be wrong.
  • Also, there are indeed two parts to the third secret: the vision of the angel with the sword and Mary, and the hill of martyrs.
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 9,935
    More clarification coming soon
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 9,935

    Many fatimists are aware of the Blue Army's stance, but that does not change the facts. If you do as Socci (and many of us) have done, you will know the truth.
    Thanked by 1JulieColl
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 9,935

    Yes. There are two parts to the third secret, but not as you describe.

    The FIRST part was that which was released in 2000 by the vatican.

    But they did not release the SECOND part, which Socci is calling the 'fourth secret'. (No one ever called it that, but for clarification, I suspect he is calling it that.) This is because the second part of the third secret was put in a different envelope and contained much fewer lines. This was commonly known as the 'explosive' part of the secret because it contains the words of the Virgin Mary that begin, “In Portugal, the dogma of the faith will always be preserved etc." It has been reported that this portion was kept in the bedchamber of the pope in a wooden safe.

  • Liam
    Posts: 4,605
    As in: Reverend Green with the candlestick in the master bedroom....
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 9,935

    Yea, it's just a big game of clue with human race as the murder victim.

    Well, all I can say is pray the rosary daily. Make sacrifices for Our Lady and Our Lord for the offences made against them. I am hoping to give you all soon a new comp of the chanted rosary.

    Btw.... The readings this weekend are a scream.

    Thirty-third Sunday in Ordinary Time
    Lectionary: 158
    Reading 1 DN 12:1-3
    In those days, I Daniel,
    heard this word of the Lord:
    "At that time there shall arise
    Michael, the great prince,
    guardian of your people;
    it shall be a time unsurpassed in distress
    since nations began until that time.
    At that time your people shall escape,
    everyone who is found written in the book.

    “Many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake;
    some shall live forever,
    others shall be an everlasting horror and disgrace.

    “But the wise shall shine brightly
    like the splendor of the firmament,
    and those who lead the many to justice
    shall be like the stars forever."
    Responsorial Psalm PS 16:5, 8, 9-10, 11
    R. (1) You are my inheritance, O Lord!
    O LORD, my allotted portion and my cup,
    you it is who hold fast my lot.
    I set the LORD ever before me;
    with him at my right hand I shall not be disturbed.
    R. You are my inheritance, O Lord!
    Therefore my heart is glad and my soul rejoices,
    my body, too, abides in confidence;
    because you will not abandon my soul to the netherworld,
    nor will you suffer your faithful one to undergo corruption.
    R. You are my inheritance, O Lord!
    You will show me the path to life,
    fullness of joys in your presence,
    the delights at your right hand forever.
    R. You are my inheritance, O Lord!
    Reading 2 HEB 10:11-14, 18
    Brothers and sisters:
    Every priest stands daily at his ministry,
    offering frequently those same sacrifices
    that can never take away sins.
    But this one offered one sacrifice for sins,
    and took his seat forever at the right hand of God;
    now he waits until his enemies are made his footstool.
    For by one offering
    he has made perfect forever those who are being consecrated.

    Where there is forgiveness of these,
    there is no longer offering for sin.
    Alleluia LK 21:36
    R. Alleluia, alleluia.
    Be vigilant at all times
    and pray that you have the strength to stand before the Son of Man.
    R. Alleluia, alleluia.
    Gospel MK 13:24-32
    Jesus said to his disciples:
    "In those days after that tribulation
    the sun will be darkened,
    and the moon will not give its light,
    and the stars will be falling from the sky,
    and the powers in the heavens will be shaken.

    "And then they will see 'the Son of Man coming in the clouds'
    with great power and glory,
    and then he will send out the angels
    and gather his elect from the four winds,
    from the end of the earth to the end of the sky.

    "Learn a lesson from the fig tree.
    When its branch becomes tender and sprouts leaves,
    you know that summer is near.
    In the same way, when you see these things happening,
    know that he is near, at the gates.
    Amen, I say to you,
    this generation will not pass away
    until all these things have taken place.
    Heaven and earth will pass away,
    but my words will not pass away.

    "But of that day or hour, no one knows,
    neither the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 9,935
    Did you all know that Michael appeared to the three children of Fatima in 1916?
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,674
    Well, all I can say is pray the rosary daily. Make sacrifices for Our Lady and Our Lord for the offences made against them.

    Certainly nothing wrong with that. What has soured the Fatima messages with many is the likes of Gruner and company. Their hysteria, which I suspect was for raising money, was a bit too much to believe. The handling of the Fatima messages by the Vatican has been as bad as the typical high school play.
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 9,935
    Well, the hysteria came from the vatican (trying to suppress Gruner AND illegally trying to suspend him-mainly Sodano and Bertone.) However, if you keep up with the vatican, Bertone was caught in a huge scandal and was... uh... dismissed for embezzlement of millions. He also finally admitted on public television that there are indeed two parts of the secret. Lies, lies, lies.

    Do you NOW wonder who was telling the truth about Fatima? Gruner should have received a great apology, but he has passed away.
  • Francis,

    The puzzle for me, ever since the third secret was made public, has been this very point: it doesn't conclude the way we were told it would.

    I don't like to believe that high-place churchmen could tell such bald-faced lies, but since human nature is human nature, high churchmen can't be immune from such things.

  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,674

    I don't like to believe that high-place churchmen could tell such bald-faced lies, but since human nature is human nature, high churchmen can't be immune from such things.

    I wonder what they would gain from it.
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 9,935
    The puzzle for me, ever since the third secret was made public, has been this very point: it doesn't conclude the way we were told it would.

    Can you clarify this point?
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,674
    I agree it doesn't seem to conclude right. It just ends and seems to hang out in the air somewhere. It wasn't put together by a professional writer so that could be a factor. However, if you accept the theory that church authorities are suppressing parts of the secret, my question is, why? What does the church gain either by releasing it or sitting on it? How does it serve the interests or self-interests of those in charge?
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 9,935
    Because the third secret is widely known to most likely contain the part about 'the great apostasy beginning at the top." If Our Lady of Fatima is indeed the 'Woman Clothed with the Sun' as the various popes have referred to her, then we are in that time of the tribulation and the 'great falling away'. In Daniel it is referred to as the abomination of desolation.
  • ...and that would mean that those in power are responsible for said desolation and downfall. They likely don't want that on their shoulders (I mean, who would?), but they also don't want to compromise those relationships, alliances, theology (good and bad) that got them where they are. Essentially, this "great apostasy" seems to refer to the Mass of Paul VI and the Second Vatican Council, so anyone who supports those would have to admit that the last 50 years were essentially a mistake and start the reverse campaign, which would incur the ire and wrath of many who are in power, and many would lose their posts and influence. This, to me, would be an understandable reason to suppress the truth. It happens in politics all the time. Nobody wants to admit they've done something wrong.
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 9,935
    testimony from Frere Michele de la Sainte Trinite
    3264 x 2448 - 2M
    3264 x 2448 - 2M
  • bhcordovabhcordova
    Posts: 1,081
    francis, what book is that?
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 9,935
    There are dozens and dozens of books on Fatima. This particular title is "The Whole Truth About Fatima, Science and the Facts" by Frere Michel, Immaculate Heart Publications, 1983.
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 9,935
    The heart of what Our Lady wants...
    3264 x 2448 - 2M
    3264 x 2448 - 2M
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 9,935
    more... not for the faint of heart

    Thanked by 1JulieColl
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 9,935
    So… I suspect many are coming to the realization that the The consecration has not occurred, simply by looking around us and observing that we are not in the period of the triumph of the immaculate heart of Mary. We are now surrounded by a dire crisis, and mass apostasy from the faith. We will not see world peace until Heavens mandate is fulfilled

    Our Lady of Fatima said to Sister Lucy in May 1952,
    “Make it known to the Holy Father that I still await the Consecration of Russia to My Immaculate Heart. Without this consecration Russia cannot be converted nor can the world have peace.”