Help with mass, chanting antiphons and such
  • Good morning,
    Please forgive me if I don't use terms or words correctly, I have never heard of most of this stuff until a month ago. I am a teacher at a Catholic School and we have a new priest this year. He wants the music to change to chant, no or little hymns. I am not being given a substantial amount of information on what to do, and I grew up in a much more "liberal" church, so I have never been exposed to this.
    Words have been thrown at me like Graduale Simplex, Roman Missal, Communios (forgive me if spelling is inaccurate), and to look on Musica Sacra, but I'm not sure what exactly I am supposed to look for. We have mass on Fridays and I don't see a lot of chants written for weekday mass. Also, I don't know which of the books I mentioned above are appropriate for 3rd-8th graders who have not been exposed to a lot of this before now.
    In our missalette, we have the Entrance and Communion Antiphons, but nothing for Offertory. What do I do for Offertory? What do I do after the Communion Antiphon is over and he is still giving communion? We are going to do the Marian Antiphons for recessional.
    If anyone can help, or give me ideas, or use words that I understand lol, I would greatly appreciate it. I would like to get started with it as soon as possible, but I don't want to do it wrong. Thanks in advance.
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,700
    Take a look at this website:
    https://illuminarepublications.com/scores/ordinary-time/

    It has antiphons in English. For most weekdays in Ordinary Time, it's easiest to use the antiphons from the previous Sunday. There are also modern notation versions, which might be easy for you to start right away with.

    The Lumen Christi Missal also has chant antiphons for the weekday Responsorial Psalms.
    Thanked by 1musicstar86
  • Musicstar86,

    For the sake of my ability to be helpful (and for clarity for any other posters hereabouts):

    1) Do you teach music at the school, or something else?
    2) The parish/school has resources to acquire at least some of what Father wants?
    3) Did his tone convey impatience, or merely fervent desire to do the right thing?

    Now:

    The Roman Missal is the book Father uses, which contains all the prayers of the Mass. You, being a layman, wouldn't normally need this book, but you might ask Father if he could help you to see what you evidently haven't seen. Express to him your desire to do as he asks, and your willingness to learn.

    Communio probably means the collection of antiphons sung at the distribution of Holy Communion, and the verses which may accompany them. On the other hand, he might be referring, in short hand, to Communion and Liberation, a periodical to which HH Pope Benedict XVI used to contribute.

    Musica Sacra is the name of a document issued by the Pope some years ago. It's easily available.

    The reason you can't find the Offertory antiphons is that they are not published in anything to which ordinary laymen have access if the parish is using only the Ordinary Form. I've gone looking for them multiple times without success.


    It is a right and good thing for the music of the Mass to revert to chant. This is music properly used at the public worship of the Church. Some of the chants are relatively easy, while others are much more intricate and more difficult to learn. Children, however, are quick learners. Adults? Not always so willing or able.

    Many other posters hereabouts will point you to stepping-stone resources, so I won't do that.

    One resource you must use, though, is your knees! They are designed to bend to God, in adoration. The Mass is a profound act of worship, and Father wishes to recapture that, so get used to the idea that you're part of an exciting (and possibly nerve-wracking) time in your parish.

  • Hi and welcome to the forum, I was like you a while ago, a bit at sea with all this stuff and believe me there is all the help you need here and on the cmaa website. don't be afraid to ask.

    Okay, here goes.
    There are three chants for each mass - entrance or introit, offertory , and communion.
    They all follow the same format - an antiphon, which is a bit like the chorus of a hymn, its is the bit you repeat, and in between you sing psalm verses, as you would the verses of a hymn. So each chant has the same format antiphon, psalm verse, repeat antiphon, another psalm verse, and so on, for as long or as short as you need. A short entrance procession for example, in our tiny parish church only ever needed the antiphon and one psalm verse. The longest one will probably be the communion, depending on how many are attending mass.
    One word of caution - the antiphons printed in the missal are not the antiphons for singing - they are only for saying at masses where there is no singing. That is why there is no offertory antiphon printed, because the priest is saying the offertory prayer at this time. so for the purposes of a sung Mass you can ignore the antiphons in the missal, they are for spoken masses only. (there is an odd optional exception to this only for the american church, but it won't matter if you ignore that and do what the rest of the church does)

    So now you know what you are looking for - three antiphons.

    Where to find them?

    Okay the go to book for the proper antiphons is the graduale romanum.
    Which you can download for free here.
    graduale romanum
    but the easier place to go is thi handy website which does it all for you
    a website that gets the proper antiphons for you
    when you go to tht website, you make a few choices, and hey presto, it will give you a nice pdf of the music for your mass.
    Here are the settings you will need to use
    First - unless it is a special feast day or saints day, the amtiphons for a weekday are the same as the previous sunday.
    Select the 'novus ordo' if you are doing the ordinary form mass (you probably are uless your priest has told you differently)
    Select the previous sunday - for example last week it was the 30th sunday in ordinary time, and we are in year B.
    Select which pieces you want in your pdf - you will want introitus, offertorium and communion.
    you have the choice of full propers (the antiphons set to their proper music) or psalm tone antiphons,( a simpler way to sing the antiphons, but not the first choice to go for)

    And there you have it - you now have some beautiful latin music to sing for mass.

    but wait you say - what can the kids actually do with this stuff?

    Okay, so now you know where the end point of your musical journey is, how do you get there?

    Like any good teacher, you break it down into easier steps.

    first you can reduce the new learning by singing the same antiphon for several weeks, by choosing one from the season. Just now we are in ordinary time, so you could for example use last sundays for more than one week. we are about to go into advent, you could do just one set from the four weeks of advent.

    Second, start with something easier! Basically you can sing the same words to a simpler tune, and you can sing in english in stead of latin.

    in terms of steps down to easier and easier -
    Graduale romanum =Latin, full tune
    Graduale simplex = latin, easier tune
    Graduale parvum, = choice of latin or english, simplified melodies from the graduale romanum
    Simple english propers = english, simplified melody line, quite easy for kids to learn
    Psalm tone propers = english or latin, the right words sung to a psalm tone, very very simple, but gets boring , so not one to stay with long term.

    all of the above can be found on or from the cmaa website for free,

    And now the cool teaching part
    Teachng music skills to your kids is an essential part of the long term plan. You will want them eventually to be able to take a piece of music and sing it through, so that practice is simple and about making it meautiful , not just teaching them the music line by line be ear.
    In my experience it takes about one school year to teach a 6 year old how to read chant sufficient to be able to sing through something from the simple english propers by sight singing. They could sing a psalm tone proper from scratch in about 8 weeks. The go to method, developed specifically for teaching children to read and sing chant is the ward method, which could be part of another discussion? But again there are all sorts for free resources online for using it.

    So if you wanted a recommendation for a plan:
    Season 1 (the rest of ordinary time)
    Sing psalm tone propers in english, as many as you can, but using the same one more than once if needed.

    Season 2 Advent.
    Go to the simple english propers - learn one set, do it all four weeks.

    Season 3 Christmas / after christmas ordinary time
    More simple english propers, with one communion proper from the graduale parvum in one ullenglish.

    Season 4 lent
    Simple english popers for entrance , another communion antiphon from the parvum, alternate with the one you already know, and learn one offertory from the graduale romanum.

    Season 5 after easter
    one full antiphon from graduale for entrance, simple english proers offertory, communio from parvum as before.

    and so on to the next school year.
    A you build up over time, each time you come back to a season, you find that you have some music in hand tht the older kids are familiar with from previous years. Als you investment in music reading skills is starting to pay off, so that they can tackle more complex pieces more quickly.

    Full prpers for eacj distinct week of the year might be a stratch, but you certainly could get close to it over a number of years.

    Something else to think about - if you are sing the propers (antiphons) then you should also be sing the ordinary (he response parts of the mass) and the priest should be singing his parts too. These will need time to work on, again, there are simpler sets and more complex sets, you can sing in english first, then latin to the same tune and so on.

    DON'T PANIC. They are only school kids, how hard can that be? ;-)

    sorry for all the typos. hope you got something from it.
  • oh i forgot to say, once you have found your chant, the graduale romanum and simple english propers all have practice videos online to listen and sing along with, a great help.
  • Jani
    Posts: 441
    That's excellent, bonniebede. Someone ought to give this post its own category over there on the right side of the forum.
    Thanked by 2bonniebede CHGiffen
  • I certainly don't mind changing to this if this what Father prefers, I just don't know anything about it.
    I was told by Father "I'll leave you to figure that out". He also told one of the parish choirs "If I hear a piano for Christmas and not an organ I'm going to pull out my eardrums". This to me, sounds impatient and not very helpful to me.
    I'm not sure if I have funding available to me for new resources, we have a new interim principal this year as well.
    I teach music at the school to Kinder-8th grade. My kids are very talented and they pick things up fast, it's just that we only meet twice a week for thirty minutes and we are now getting ready for Christmas program, so it's hard balancing new mass info and Christmas songs/ dances in nine rehearsals :).
  • Jani
    Posts: 441
    A lot of this music is free online, and if you learn it yourself first, you can quite easily and quickly teach it, even in your short practice sessions.
  • yes you certainly have a lot on your plate there. Don't mind about the priest, things have been a bit tense around church music for, oh the last fifty years or so.
    The beauty of switching to chant is that everything you need is free online, just download and photocopy.
    30 minutes twice a week is a great slot, I get about 40 mins once a week with my 6-9 year olds. A good ward Method class takes 20 minutes, leaving time for learning new music by rote till they are up to sight reading it, which they will be doing by the end of the year.
    One of the traps not to fall into is to try to program so much music that you only ever have time to teach it by rote, and so even after several years with a group of kids you are spending the same amount of practice time just learning music, whereas investing in teaching them to sight sing means after the first year, they should be able to come into class familiar enough with a piece to start a rehearsal.
    if you can send kids home with homework, get them to listen and learn from online resources, such as the simple english proper practise videos. Class should as much as possible be about teaching skills and perfecting known music.
  • simplify everything. though others here might be horrified, i have found that taize chants, especially the rounds and canons are useful stopgaps. You need only teach a simple two or three line melody, but when sung in parts it can sound quite sophisticated. This might help get over that initial learning period when you want to invest in new music and skills, but have to continue meeting expectations of great sounding music.

    Ultimately this is a judgement call, which all the stakeholders must understand.
    You can take a class of 8 yr olds, teach them something complex by rote, drill them in it for a long time, and have them perform it very well. It will sound great, the mummys will be thrilled - BUT - their actual skill set will have increased only very marginally.
    Alternatively you can invest more heavily in skills, using simpler music, repeated more frequently, but by the end of the year they will have made real progress.

    This is only a problem for the first year or two. By the end of your second year, your more seniors will have outstripped the ones who learn by rote. Their repertoire will be growing much faster, and their skill set for sight reading and singing will be immeasurably better.

    Part of the choice comes down to whether you see your role as producing a performance or of educating the children. They are not the same goal, and sometimes can be in conflict.
  • They know how to read modern notation, and most of my 5th and up can sight-read pretty well, we just haven't done that much with chant. I'm not even fluent on how to read chant notation, I never had to in college or church so this is a big transitional year for us. Hopefully they will catch on quickly!
  • You are in a wonderful predicament. Relish it, but yes, you have a lot of work ahead.

    I would take some time to explain to Father that learning music -- especially a new style of music -- takes time. It is important for non-musicians to appreciate this fact.

    Having said that, many things can change immediately and then be improved over time. For example, sitting down at an organ is no more difficult than sitting down at a piano. You won't really be 'playing organ' so much as 'playing piano on the organ', but you'll be giving Father an immediate change, and perhaps then you can reassure him that in the medium and long term, you plan on further improvements.

    Of course, there is a line, somewhere, between an acceptable change to something that is better than what you have now but nowhere near ideal, in contrast to an unacceptable change to something that could be better, but right now is much worse. As others suggested, if you keep everything very simple at first, you should be able to remain safely on the right side of that line.
  • music star, that is great, if they can read round notes it will be very easy to teach them square notes. Brush up on the basics with the 'idiots guide to square notes' and you will be up and running in no time. Some of the resources also come on five line staves in a sort of modern notation so they could be used straight away.
  • Can i also add that you are very blessed, many would give their eyeteeth for this opportunity!
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • kevinfkevinf
    Posts: 1,191
    Would someone step up and mentor this person?The possibilities are exciting but they need help.

    I will if no else will.

    From the bourbon lands,
    Kevin
  • Thank you so much everyone for your input, I don't feel so overwhelmed now. I think I am understanding what I need to do.... for now anyway. I am looking at The Simple English Propers online and they seem fairly simple to start with. I am confused about the Introits end with "Glory be..." Is that something I need to do? I saw Gloria Patri somewhere, but I don't know what that is. Forgive my ignorance.
  • KARU27
    Posts: 184
    Can I join your parish - - or can we clone your priest? : )
  • Carl DCarl D
    Posts: 992
    This is a wonderful opportunity, MusicStar - and we're all praying for your success in this endeavor!

    I would most definitely take advantage of specific generous people here - Bonniebede and Kevin come to mind - who can support you with more interactive conversations. The problem with the forum is that: (1) you can get a variety of answers to a question, some helpful, some diverging; (2) it's hard to ask a question in which you confess your own ignorance (congratulations on your courage starting this thread!); and (3) you'll have a zillion questions, and it can feel to you like you're spraying them all over this forum.

    So take advantage of this forum, certainly, but if you can get someone to volunteer to mentor you between now and Christmas, it'll help you to move forward swiftly and keep your spirits up. It may just be a half hour Skype call every week, it doesn't have to be a huge imposition on you or on them.

    Keep up your courage and focus, and it'll be wonderful! This is entirely doable!
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,315
    The Glory be is at the end of the Psalm verse (the last one if you repeat the antiphon and sing more than one verse). It is then followed by the antiphon again. Here is an example of the Introit sung in the traditional way. I made sure that included the music so you can see how everything fits together; also, the cantor intones the antiphon up until the asterisk, and the choir then sings. All sing the antiphon any subsequent times. This is replicated in the SEP.

    But this is in English and in the OF, so for those two reasons the Psalm verse and Gloria Patri are optional. At the Mass I usually attend at university on Sundays, they sing a hymn and only the antiphon. They could also sing the antiphon and Psalm verse, or they could do that and then repeat the antiphon but without the Gloria Patri. Doing the full, traditional Introit is IMHO best. But, an opening hymn is still allowed, and I (and many others like hymns) and they might be miffed if it goes away.

    But...say you have Mass for a holy day that falls during the school week, like the Immaculate Conception where there is incense and a full procession. This thread here is great. You could do this in English.
    Thanked by 2musicstar86 CHGiffen
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    CGZ, I suspect that when the priest recommended looking at "Musica Sacra", he didn't mean the 1958 document about music for the (old) Mass. He probably meant our (CMAA) websites, including this forum.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen Adam Wood