YEH-soo is fine... if one is singing in Latin. If one is singing English, it's JEE-soo, the Anglo-Saxon vocative. Singing YAY-soo (or -zoo) in an English context is ill-informed.

"Are most educated Catholic choirmasters in agreement that English diction should not be influenced by Hebrew, Latin, or other foreign pronunciations?"

I don't know, but I am inclined to doubt it. A lot of choirmasters might choose a pronunciation that offers an optimized fulcrum point with these two poles: clarity of diction, and lowest risk of pitch distortion. And that question answered in the context of specific amateur singers in a specific acoustical space.

Let the people say, Amen. Pronounced whichever way you want.

school-marmy fussbudgetry

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wV4gwR8QDKg

English diction has already been influenced by all of those, and many more, factors. It's a done deal.

Rather than worrying about perceived 'standard English' pronunciations, I would be far more inclined to worry about musicality.

I do think that some people exhibit an apparent tendency to pronounce words in a 'ferruhn' way because they believe it makes them sound sophisticated, and I'd certainly wish to avoid that form of silliness as well.

This may be one of those issues in which everybody is right... and nobody is wrong.
The two constants in making these judgments may be scholarship and context, either of which may trump the other depending on the, um, context.

The so-called English cathedral choral tradition is a living thing, not just an historical artifact.

So is English, as she is spoke by Americans in church.

I'm pretty sure I would giggle if I heard Americans singing SAB-ay-oth, and NOO is perfectly reasonable for choral pronunciation.

https://answersingenesis.org/tower-of-babel/babel-how-to-pronounce-it/

eye-ZIGH-uh in American choirs sounds twee. Just does. (I prefer it myself, but wouldn't force it on other Americans. The English choral tradition is lovely, but it's not dispositive for American choirs, let alone Roman choirs.)

The correct pronunciation is that taught by your choirmaster. That's all. (That does not imply that all choirmasters are equal, or that some of them shouldn't be advised by their better peers.) I nearly always teach English choral diction because I consider it to be the most beautiful and euphonious, just as I've, since about the fifth grade, used British spelling - because I like it and think that Merriam Webster was an incredibly presumptuous and mean spoil-sport. I am not disturbed that others have their own preferences. Some American diction is admirable and artful - some isn't (and that goes for some English English.)

Yay-soo is incorrect. Mispronouncing it that way in English church music doesn’t come from Latin (I mean, it might in some contexts I guess), but rather that it’s most well known use, “Jesu, joy of man’s desiring,” it is often conflated with the original German Text which is he basis for the English, so people sing yay-soo because they’re used to hearing the German sung to that tune.

The j glide before “u” isn’t a matter of dialect anymore so much as it is a matter of accepted standards of diction/clarity, as crystallized in the “Daniel Sitteth” mnemonic from Madeleine Marshall.

The pronunciation of Latin and Hebrew words when used in English (sabaoth for example is, as far as I know, only used in the original Anglican translation settings, not catholic ones) is based on the pronunciation of Latin in England, called Oxford Latin, that came about by tagging along with English pronunciation development and was used in Britain, even by catholic priests, even trained abroad, into the nineteenth and even twentieth centuries. This pronunciation can still be hear from some Brits, and is sometimes used when singing Byrd or Tallis (quam closer to rhyming with swam), and often even in English when singing Alleluia (sounding like Alice rather than more like all). If you have ever heard a recording or seen a video of a royal occasion when Parry’s I Was Glad was sung, the “vivat regina” is sung according to ango-Latin. Words like “sinus”, “femur”, “decree nisi”, “piloric”, and “angina” are direct loans from Latin and we pronounce them according to the Anglo/oxford Latin.
Using Anglo-Latin for Latin texts is probably unwise and affected, even if singing Byrd or Tallis, but the words “Israel”, “Babel”, “Babel-sounds”, “magi”, “swaddling”, “tabret”, “bashan” (rhymes with nation), “sabaoth” (the last syllable also usually sounds more like the vowel in froth), etc., should always be pronounced with the English vowels. ESPECIALLY if you are singing Anglican rep, like a Te Deum, it matters absolutely zilch what anyone’s opinion about the pronunciations is, sa-bah-ott, etc. are wrong. Find out how King’s College songs it and that’s your answer. Izryel is always wrong, period—it isn’t “the Latin pronunciation”. That would be is-rah-el. I have a feeling that sabaoth is just a matter of panic, but isryel is probably an unfortunate consequence of stupid pop singers and their Christmas albums. Mispronunciation if less common words is the result, probably, of wanting to sound exotic/“authentic” and/or a lack of homework. I always used to call dibs on the relevant portion of psalm 22 at solemn Good Friday to ensure that no one would be singing “bulls of Be’Shawn”.

Bonus: Zion should not sound like an alien planet, but rather should usually rhyme more with a non-rhotic r/British pronunciation of “iron.” This goes for reading lessons as well. We don’t want any Hydrogen Zions.

Djeez-you, if you please ;-)

In South Africa we say nee-thuR, so we already have a problem early in the game. Trying to keep pronunciation uniform in English is a tough one, since there are so many dialects. I would keep a uniform in the liturgical languages such as Latin and Greek as par as possible. After that I would do a bit of research on the use of English at the time of the composition and match up as best as possible.

In regard to the word Jesu, correct pronunciation partly depends on whether this word is being used in Latin or English or (I suppose) Spanish.


Imagine otherwise intelligent people say Hey-Zoo (using deformed Spanish) when trying to sing Jesu Dulcis Memoria and/or Jesu Joy of Man's Desiring.

The first (In my opinion) should be pronounced "Yay-zoo", and the second "Jee-zyou".