Germs of the GIRM
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    Has anybody seen this set of articles yet? I find some of it quite amusing, and most if it interesting commentary on the GIRM.

    http://www.dailycatholic.org/issue/2003Mar/2003gog.htm

    Particularly this one from part 9: Change for Change's Sake

    Today, I want to cover how GIRM contradicts itself and goes out of its way to try to convince us everything is kosher. The problem is: it's not!
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,093
    Yes. People who like that sort of thing will find it's the sort of thing they'll like.

    The commentary has itself become dated.

    Thanked by 1igneus
  • francis
    Posts: 10,825
    Liam

    Have you read the content?
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    francis, I agree with you and Liam. The content of the article via the URL was put into the collective in 2003. As Liam says, we know this stuff. And tho' we know that 12 years isn't even worth one atom of hydrogen in God's time, in Catholic-land it's a bygone era to folks now that have the attention span of a gnat, and the memory of a flea.
    The battle and the war can only be waged and won one parish at a time, by those of us who pick up the flag and keep saluting it until we hand it off to our successors, hopefully a free and open mind.
  • fcbfcb
    Posts: 338
    I'm suspicious of anybody who feels compelled to put Ph.D. after his name.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    You are such a hoot, Fritz!
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,193
    I'm suspicious of anybody who feels compelled to put Ph.D. after his name.
    Others might feel that way about anybody who feels compelled to put Jr, II, III, or IV after his name.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,093
    Francis

    Yes, I did, and I've followed Tom Droleskey periodically over the years back from the 1990s, when he defended the long-time pastor of the parish I grew up in from being wrongly treated by the then-bishop and his minions (this was long after I had moved away, mind you - he was pastor for over 30 years - the joys of the pre-1983 CCL). Now, while I have do not have unreservedly positive assessments of that pastor, I could never fault his zeal for souls nor did I think the way he was treated at all commendable. In any event, I note that just so you understand I did not start reading Tom Droleskey with a negative bias at all. My sense is that, over the years, he's gotten caught in something of a feedback loop/eddy, and that while there's truth to many things he observes, it remains partial and limited. Kinda reminds me of my late Boston terrier with his favorite bones. There's a certain charm to it.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,093
    CHG

    Just no Dr such and such for mere PhDs (Cavalier inside reference).

    The lawyer analogue is lawyers who sign off with a JD next to their name.
  • Mike Shawaluk
    Posts: 58
     
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,093
    Not necessarily. They can also be signifiers of true learnedness, though of course not necessarily the virtue of wisdom.
    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,414
    Ha! About those PhD's, if you think putting a PhD after someone's name is pretentious you should visit Deutschland, where the number of Phd's after one's name correlates precisely to the number of PhD's one has earned. So, one who holds a PhD in music, art, literature, and physics, would be addressed as Dr Dr Dr Dr Schnitt, and he would put all four Phd's after his name. Actually, I don't share Deacon Fritz' disdain for such practices. Rather, I admit to some jealousy.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    I love this digression Fritz started! Only a few times have I encountered a PhD, EdD, DMA and such where in the course of conversation it became clear that the person wanted to be referred to as "doctor So'n'so." Given my propensity for visceral reaction it was a miracle in all instances that I did not respond "Yes, doctor I will do that. You may address me as Master!" I loved all my time in "academia" such as it was. I intended to go onto the DMA, but after consulting with two doctor friends (one an MD and a fine musician), he said "Charles, those initials won't necessarily mean you are a better musician or scholar." Truer words.... And then public secondary choral called looking for me literally, Wendy said "Benefits!" and it was all she wrote. And how many of us have friends/acquaintances for whom the paper chase only eventuated in careerism?
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,093
    "Yes, doctor I will do that. You may address me as Master!"

    LOL.

    Try "Sire".
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    I have been in that situation, Charles. My response was, "I am not here to flatter your inflated ego. Get over it!"
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,193
    Just no Dr such and such for mere PhDs (Cavalier inside reference).
    By way of explanation (since I got to know Liam when he as a student and I a faculty member of UVa): For years upon end at the University of Virginia, still known as "Mr Jefferson's University" and well before it became coeducational, it was customary for faculty members to be addressed as "Mister" rather than "Doctor" or "Professor" ... a tradition that has faded but is still practiced albeit to a lesser degree, complicated somewhat by the presence of female faculty. The preference for "Mister" over "Doctor" or "Professor" was at Mr Jefferson's behest, who was well known for eschewing titles.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,093
    CHG

    I have a strong memory of my last examination in the College, in May 1983. A new professor (I remember his name, but will keep him anonymous because of his then inexperience) in the History Department had given a upper-level class. On the day of the final examination, he came to the classroom to give us the exams. He then said that, while he knew he could not require it of us, he preferred if we would take the examination in the classroom. At least half the class promptly rose and took their exams to complete where they wished. I think I did mine in one of the gardens between the East Lawn and the East Range.

    Raymond Bice was the lone exception to the No DR for non-medical doctors in the College of that time - his was an honorific bestowed by the affection of this students.

    Btw, it was also the custom for faculty to use Mr/Miss/Ms for students, at least until they were on a first name basis or speaking together outside the classroom. It was a reciprocal custom, if memory serves.

    And, so far as I know, UVA still does not grant honorary degrees. Long may that be so.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • ryandryand
    Posts: 1,640
    In some circles, it is a sign of respect to refer to an individual by only their last name. CAPITALIZED.

    No additional letters are necessary. All of this Dr stuff, PhD stuff, Mr/Mrs/Ms stuff - not relevant. The only question is whether "THE" is used in front of one's name or not. For this, we consult with special consultants.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Like in, "the GREAT SANTINI?"
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Like in, "the ZISSOU?"
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    I have no idea what THE DINGESS is talking about. None at all.
    Thanked by 1melofluent
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    MELOCHE might not agree.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    If you could pray for the author of those articles, it wouldn't hurt; the learned gentleman has fallen into sedevacantist opinions in the years since he wrote those pieces.
    Thanked by 1eft94530
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