Introit "Respice" OT19/Pent 13
  • Andrew_Malton
    Posts: 1,187
    Well this is kind of annoying.

    We sing propers from Richard Rice's older book, so the texts are not exactly as in the Missal, but we live with it. But Sunday's introit ends "do not ignore the shouts of your enemies", whereas in the Missal it (now) says "forget not the cries of those who seek you". So we are going to sing something apparently the opposite of what the missallettes say.

    This is Ps 73/74 v 23. In my New St Joseph Daily Missal (c) 1966 it says "be not unmindful of the voices of those who ask you" (which seems to be a mistranslation pure and simple). The Latin Missal has "quaerentium" which is ambiguous. Jerome has "inimicorum" which isn't. The Septuagint has "hikanon" which means suppliants. The Hebrew has "tsarrar" which means enemy.

    I am not sure whom God is supposed to be not ignoring here. I am sure He knows, but I hope no one notices in church tomorrow.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen Adam Wood
  • rob
    Posts: 148
    I was also annoyed by the same: both and either/or?
  • Richard R.
    Posts: 776
    I defer to the new translation, which makes a better (I think the term is) apposition, typical of the Psalms. Here's a quick revision of the offending line, short of redoing the whole thing. Though I must say (well, maybe not "must", but will), this stuff isn't exactly surgery on the brain, and you all should be fashioning your own SCGs by now.
    SCG_OT19_Ent_rev0815.pdf
    44K
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen incantu
  • smvanroodesmvanroode
    Posts: 998
    This is interesting: what was the source for the text of this introit? The introit is composed of verses 20a, 19b, 22a and 23a of Psalm 74 (73):

    20a Respice [Domine] in testamentum tuum
    19b et animas pauperum tuorum ne derelinquas in finem
    22a exsurge Domine et iudica causam tuam
    23a et ne obliviscaris voces quaerentium te

    A great number of Psalters in Latin can be searched to see which versions have "voces quaerentium" instead of "voces inimicorum".
    As far as I can see, only the Psalterium Romanum, completed by Jerome in 384, has "et ne obliviscaris voces quaerentium te". This is different from the Hebrew tsarar (enemy), but matches the Greek Septuagint ἱκετῶν (one who comes to seek aid, suppliant).

    Both of Jerome's translations, from Hebrew and Greek, are side by side in Sancti Hieronymi Operum, p. 1380.

    The fact that the introit uses a Latin translation of the Septuagint might shed some light on its antiquity.
    Thanked by 3CHGiffen Andrew_Malton eft94530
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