Where have all the Organs gone?
  • searchinferu
    Posts: 2
    I've read numerous posts here about churches looking for an organ. Even a yet to be completed one that some idixx (fill in the Xs) didn't include a suitable instrument in the building budget.

    I live between two large cities where the catholic church is in decline. Many parishes have combined, or just closed. In the case of the smaller sanctuaries, would they not have electronic organs that could be made available? Where would one start to look for these. And why hasn't someone started?
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    You know, of course, about the Organ Historical Society and their cache of used pipe organs they are trying to place in new homes? For electronics, I would think dealers, want ads, and the ads in both The American Organist and The Diapason might be helpful - or not, depending on transportation costs.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    Charles, are you thinking of the Organ Clearinghouse? They're a firm that specializes in organ re-installations.
    Thanked by 2ClergetKubisz M. Jackson Osborn
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    Yes, but I do belong to OHS which has links with them. If I am not mistaken, the Clearinghouse originated within the OHS. They work rather closely and there have been instances where OHS has developed the funding for Clearinghouse projects.
    Thanked by 1chonak
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    would they not have electronic organs that could be made available?


    Well, because of all the closings, and parishes wanting to "Renew" themselves, or embrace modern "contemporary" worship styles, there are plenty of organs available, but not many priests willing to say "yes" to the music director who wants to give one a suitable home. This is also why many building budgets don't include a suitable instrument: the building committee (including the priest) doesn't think that it's important.
  • donr
    Posts: 971
    We need an organ for our new church, my priest is all for it, but no money available. I need to raise money on my own if I want one.
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    St Ann's in Lafayette Indiana has one they offered me for free and they were willing to ship. Contact Stimsoninrehab on this forum for details.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    my priest is all for it, but no money available

    The priest is not "all for it."
    Thanked by 2ClergetKubisz eft94530
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    That's right, Adam, if he was all for it, the money would suddenly be available. Kinda like when you hear "there's no room in the new design," or something like that. The things that are important to people will have space, time, energy, effort, etc. made for them.
    Thanked by 3CharlesW hilluminar eft94530
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    I'm sorry CK/guys, Adam's logic may be spot on, but he's wrong. I'm in the process of advising/consulting for the liturgical appropriations for a pro-cathedral, and there are so many mitigating circumstances that Adam's logic becomes illogical due to fiscal reality. I know my "reality" may be different than Adam's (or our learned colleague Jackson), but what I'm handed, I'm handed. Harrumphing and castigations won't change that at all.
    PS. For an example of that reality, research the organ installment at Christ our Light in Oakland, and then tell me how that could be accomplished elsewhere without the singular circumstances that enabled Oakland to proceed.
    PSS. Now, if Adam or MJM or Jackson, Noel or CDub want to come out to our now almost barren desert and lobby the folks here and in other 1%er donor locales, please!
    Thanked by 1donr
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    I have had my hands full lobbying for a console rebuild. We got the money and the console will be vacationing in Louisville for two months while being rebuilt. I have a Roland digital piano in its place. One good thing, when the organ returns the congregation will rejoice. It was out a few weeks five years ago while the loft was being reworked. The congregation was ecstatic when the organ was back in service.

    You want water? Wish I could send you some. It has rained for a week solid and has another week and a half before fair weather will return. We had 4 inches of rain in one night alone.
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,414
    Charles, I really don't mean to be needling you, causing you angst when you are doing your best, or any such unpleasant stuff, but, I'll have to cast my vote with Adam Recto Tono: in most cases 'money isn't available' or any kindred locutions mean that whatever money might be at hand for whatever is desired, it isn't going to be used for an organ (or music, etc.). I'll grant that some parishes really are impecunious, but most of the time it's a simple matter of not wanting to 'waste' funds on an organ. This may or may not be true of your situation (with a pro-cathedral, yet!), and I'm not suggesting that it is or isn't. You would be the one to know whether you are dealing with genuine liturgical poverty or misers with other things in mind for the money that's there or could be raised if desired. Whichever it is, I wish you well in your efforts!
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Thank you, Jackson. I am dealing with the former situo and a diocese with no serious liturgical vision that goes back to its solo designation as a See. It's not a matter of misers, it's a matter of recalcitrants who will assent to "make do." Frankly, I don't know whether I will actually live to see its blessing, tho' everyone seems sure I will. But I clearly recognize that you appreciate my dedication and efforts. If the repertoire and ethos I've worked in the last 22 years survives me and even thrives, I'll be the happiest guy in purgatory.

    PS. For the record, I anticipate working with a trusted Rodgers rep. Last I was appraised, they'd budgeted for at best a grand piano. "Uh, no!" was my reply and it was acceded to.
  • searchinferu
    Posts: 2
    Shoot Melofluent, you can buy a decent used Allen for less than a new drum set. Who the heck thinks a grand piano is going to draw the younger folks in, much less keep the older generation from leaving to get all the head banging stuff outta their ears.
  • PaxMelodious
    Posts: 442
    Beware: I was part of a church building project that did not allocate space or budget for an organ. After the design was complete, it came to pass that a small chapel with strong emotional connections to the PP was closing and need to re-home its organ. We got it. Vastly under-powered for our new building. My guess is that it hadn't been maintained over the years, and we didn't have budget (or interest TBH) re-furbing it. Looked ugly. Took up space that we'd intended for other purposes. Didn't work well as an organ when a visiting concert wanted to us it. Basically trouble all round. Sometimes gift horses should have their teeth carefully examined.
  • lhouston58
    Posts: 52
    Pax, is this pipe or digital?
  • PaxMelodious
    Posts: 442
    Pipe. (And it's in a different country to the one I'm living in now, so I'm afraid I cannot answer any more questions about it!)
  • lhouston58
    Posts: 52
    Clergit, there's a two manual Rodgers for sale on the Church Organ Trader site (recently posted) Go there and have a look.
  • donr
    Posts: 971
    I can say that the pastor is for it because I was able to talk everyone into putting in a choir loft large enough for a pipe organ (tracker or digital), and the extra structural supports and separate room for air blowers, conduit in the floor for wires and cables if needed. But the actual instrument is on me to come up with the funding.
    Everyone that I've talked to has been giving so much already for the actual building that they say they don't have enough for even a $250k instrument.
    I was successful placing it on extra donation list with the (art work, statues, confessionals, etc) extra costs.
  • PhatFlute
    Posts: 219
    Not to Vietnam ! Joking,
    Oh
  • lhouston58
    Posts: 52
    I've heard similar things coming from the Diocese of Knoxville in regards to a new organ for the new cathedral. A space for a pipe organ is included in the design, but there are no plans for a pipe organ "...for the foreseeable future."
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,414
    Even for a new cathedral church! How sad.
    This is not mere grumpiness: why, why is it that large numbers of parishes (not to mention dioceses) raise buildings that quite obviously cost millions and have raised money for just about whatever their little hearts desired, who could, if they wished, raise half a million or two or three million for this or that, but absolutely refuse to budget a dime for an organ? They will, of course, be delighted, overjoyed, if some dowager wishes to donate one, but they will not spend a cent themselves. Why?
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    I've heard similar things coming from the Diocese of Knoxville in regards to a new organ for the new cathedral. A space for a pipe organ is included in the design, but there are no plans for a pipe organ "...for the foreseeable future."


    All this despite the fact there is a 32-rank Schantz at a now defunct local college that is available for rebuilding and relocation. A local priest tried to interest us in it, but our smaller pipe instrument is all we really have room for. At most, we could add two or three more ranks but that's about it. I made the cathedral organist aware that this instrument is available, but he has a building committee to convince.
  • lhouston58
    Posts: 52
    In the case of Knoxville, the old cathedral didn't have a pipe organ so I guess they figured the new cathedral doesn't need one either. There's no organ committee in place to get the project going. and that's what they need 'cause there are some nice instruments out there needing new homes.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    When originally built, the old cathedral had a small Wicks pipe organ. It was too small for the building, but they eventually removed it and bought an electronic. It may have been a Rodgers, not sure on that. A few years ago, they bought a new Allen for what I thought was way too expensive for an electronic. But then, I am the person who would go for a small pipe organ rather than a large electronic.
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,325
    Are they moving the relatively-new, existing Allen into the new building?
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    Are they moving the relatively-new, existing Allen into the new building?


    As far as I know. Anything can happen between now and then, but that's the plan for now, last I heard. It is one of those huge Allens with selectable voicing for French, German, English styles and so on.

    The old cathedral just happened to be the largest Catholic church in town when the diocese was formed. That is why it became the cathedral. It is a 1950s era building. We used to joke that the building was in such bad taste, the Vandals would love it if they happened to invade. A few years ago, it caught fire from some electric vigil lights. One of the local priests said they should have waited another hour before calling the fire department. LOL. It will become a parish hall when the new cathedral is finished.
  • Daniel Bennett PageDaniel Bennett Page
    Posts: 835
    The new cathedral in Raleigh will be getting this instrument: http://www.cbfisk.com/sites/default/files/instruments/specifications/147_spec.pdf.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen BruceL
  • lhouston58
    Posts: 52
    With alI due respect, I don t think any of the Catholic directors of music in this town would know what to do with that Fisk except wonder where to plug it in, or play 'Shortnin' Bread' on it, or make remarks about how "Schnitger-resque" it sounded, as if any of them had ever seen, heard, or played a Schnitger in person, or held a Schnitger pipe in their paws. And listening to recordings isn't the same.

    The organist at the Raleigh cathedral must be an excellent musician for the diocese to put out the funds for an instrument of this caliber. I believe there is money for a fine cathedral organ for Knoxville, but I think they wouldn't rather use the money to build another dome,or install another useless ginormous rose window.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    The Fisk organs I have heard had more of a French sound.

    As for the cathedral, I am not part of that body and get all my info about the place second-hand. They do what they do and I really don't think about them very often. The times I have been there have been years apart.
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,700
    Raleigh Cathedral is actually hiring right now, if you'd like to apply.
    Thanked by 1BruceL
  • doneill
    Posts: 207
    I doubt that the new Fisk in Raleigh will sound either "Schnitgeresque" or French, because it will be in an English aesthetic a la Willis. Fisk is a rather eclectic builder, impossible to pin down in style.
    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    Willis is nice, although I like their French instruments. I will have to drive over and hear the new one.
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