Is this heresy?
  • ryandryand
    Posts: 1,640
    Priest joins in, on mic, for a part of the dialogue that is not his, and changes it as such:

    May the Lord accept the sacrifice at OUR hands for the praise and glory of his name, for our good and the good of all his Church.
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    No person, even if he be a priest, may add, remove or alter the texts of the Missal.

    1) "our" should be "your", since it's the people's response to the priest, addressed to him.
    2) at the end, "holy" is missing. This existed in the older, broken, form of the Missal of Paul VI, in the vernacular, but has been corrected.

    Does it qualify as heresy? Which truth of the Church is distorted?
    Does it qualify as illicit? Absolutely, and it should stop.
    Does it invalidate the Mass? I don't think so.
    Thanked by 3Gavin francis Daniel Bennett Page
  • ryandryand
    Posts: 1,640
    I copy/pasted that.... Holy was in there when we said it at Mass.

    It distorts at whose hands the sacrifice takes place. Populist theology.

    There are other troubling aspects of this parish, but this one is the most pronounced and objectively wrong. That he said the sacrifice was at OUR hands elicited a stare not unlike when cameras get all up in Meloche's face.
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,694
    When the cameras get up in my face, they get THE LOOK. And 70,000-250,000 nice TV viewers get to see it.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    It hints at confused thinking and theology, and it may be an erroneous expression of humility, even, but it's not an explicit enough statement to constitute a heresy.

    But I sympathize with your reaction; every few months, I decide to go ahead and let my face display a "what on earth...?" expression.
    Thanked by 1Daniel Bennett Page
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Ryand,

    On the assumption that he said his part correctly, "Pray, brethren, that my sacrifice and yours may be acceptable to God, the Father Almighty", then "our" sacrifice is an attempt to conflate the two... but without Father's words at the Consecration, there is no sacrifice anyway. I wish priests wouldn't engage in their own "personal restorations", as the Vatican has called it in official documents, but I still don't think it rises to the level of heresy.

    Now, this problem is solved completely when one prays according to the older rite......
  • ryandryand
    Posts: 1,640
    I'm curious if they are accustomed to it being said that way. I'll be there a couple of times in the near future and will observe if its always done that way. Something ought to be said to someone (not sure who) if this is how the congregation knows that part of the Mass. IS OUTRAGE.

    It may be "an erroneous expression of humility" from the priest, but it gets to inflating the egos of the congregation - who also heard today that they are all saints. *sigh*
    So what I take from today's Mass is that I am a saint and the sacrifice at the altar comes at my own hands.
    (I know better, but this is the impression I walked away with)

    This comes from the same priest who, a couple of weeks ago, lectured about the poor acoustics in ancient churches. He's a confusing individual.
    Thanked by 1Reval
  • Scott_WScott_W
    Posts: 468
    What Chris said, a valid Mass with illicit changes.

    But while not enough for heresy, it sounds like the priest is going out of his way to make a point. In other words, it's smoke that leads one to reasonably suspect there's fire somewhere else.
  • Reval
    Posts: 180
    "So what I take from today's Mass is that I am a saint and the sacrifice at the altar comes at my own hands.
    (I know better, but this is the impression I walked away with)"
    -------------------------------------------
    After all, "I am the bread of life", and all that...
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