John Romeri and Abp. Chaput
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Does anyone know more of Romeri's differences with Abp. Chaput? From what I heard from folks I know in Philly, Chaput basically gave him a cold shoulder from the get-go..? -
I know nothing, but here is their Triduum worship aid:
http://cathedralphila.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/EasterTriduumBookPhila-2015.pdf -
Interesting. I’d be really curious as to what the Archbishop’s vision of sacred music is.
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Am I alone in thinking that, in the Triduum booklet, the musical approach of the Vigil seems different from the other two days (seemingly no sung readings or prayer of the faithful, more contemporary music, etc.)? Could this possibly reflect the difference in musical philosophies between the Archbishop and John Romeri? (I suppose I'm just inviting others to join me in wild speculation, since I don't actually know anything about the matter.)
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This all strikes me as being rather unseemly and public.
(The music looks quite good.) -
Well, he came in 2010 to a newly created position, having served the then archbishop in his prior see. It sounds like the position is about to be deconstructed. Just in time for Philadelphia's time in the sun.
I don't recall Abp Chaput being very high in his liturgical sensiblities, more that he prefers the conciliar use, reverently celebrated, perhaps that's one way to put it? He's a Capuchin, not a Benedictine or a Dominican.Thanked by 1chonak -
Kathy: Point well taken; my initial post was probably more focused on the specific relationship between two people than I meant.
Beyond the liturgical sensibilities of one particular prelate: The trend I have often seen is for clergy who take firmer, more public stances on moral teachings to be of more “high church” liturgical sensibilities. (It’s the opposite, of course, in Protestant circles.) Are we seeing here an exception to that tendency?
Of course, some of this may indeed be looking forward to the Papal visit. From what I know, Pope Francis may be yet less a fan of Byrd, sung readings, and the like. -
Liam: in fact, some of the most grating liturgies are celebrated by outspoken prelates. In fact, I was pleased to have Mass with the nuncio once because I correctly guessed he would use the Canon and would do nothing funny. It was almost as if we had BXVI with us.
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Mathew,
Did you mean "gratifying" liturgies? -
No, I meant what I said... Liturgical aesthetics are not necessarily measures of faith. Plenty of European churches sing polyphony on Sunday while the priests seem to do little in the way of a New Evangelization. Yet orthodoxy and liturgical practice are inseperable. It was a sad day when Catholic pro-life activists settled on liturgical matters and decided that we could have sub-par liturgies so long as the priest was preaching against abortion and, besides, “Jesus is still there.” As if orthodoxy ended there!
The prelate chooses, or allows someone to choose for him, music that is not only not the Propers from the Graduale Romanum but is poorly sung and a Eucharistic prayer besides the Canon. The concelebration is uncoordinated. The celebrant moves haphazardly and somewhat makes it up as it goes. I particularly notice the illogical sequence of incesing at the Offertory, both in the number of swings and the pattern followed. Granted, this is not much different from the average parish, but considering the pontificate of BXVI, I really can’t understand why prelates, of all of the clergy, ignored his example. That rings especially because many prelates did take up the cause of renewing the sacred
As a follow-up to my first point, I think that when the liturgy is aesthetically pleasing and beautiful across all points, then we can speak to signs of deep interior faith... Mass at the London Oratory or a Solemn High Mass demonstrates this point.
I should have also said the nuncio filled in for a prelate who would have not been as careful. -
I have seen things like this before, at times when the Holy Father visits a particular country. Perhaps the stress causes disruption. Sometimes there is struggle over who will make the liturgical decisions. Various groups want to have their say and will weigh in. There were dust-ups in the UK before the papal visit there. I don't know is anyone got resigned, but there was conflict with the result that James Macmillian refuses to write anything for the Catholic church.
If you think about it, these papal visit are always rushed, everybody is freaking out because there is so much to do, and sometimes it's not clear who is running the show. Does Dr. Romeri's resignation have anything to do with this? I don't know, but the timing seems awfully coincidental.
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I don't know is anyone got resigned, but there was conflict with the result that James Macmillian refuses to write anything for the Catholic church.
ghm7, Can you provide a credible link that reports such a decision? News to me. -
James Macmillian refuses to write anything for the Catholic church.
I think this is a little polemic, and does not quite give the correct impression, as if Mr MacMillan had washed his hands of the Catholic Church and its music.
Having been privileged to fly over and attend the first Day of Musica Sacra Scotland, I can assure you this is not true. As he says in the article, he is not writing anymore congregational music which replaces the propers, rather returning to the promotion, and probably contributing to, the growing body of material for singing the Chant, including the simplified and vernacular works we are all familiar with here.
He remains, in my experience deeply committed to the promotion of sung liturgy, and congregational singing, but like many of us here, I suspect, has revised his understanding of what Vatican actually asked for. It certainly encourages me, that so learned and talented a musician and composer made a similar journey to mine... from love of music and a desire to serve the church, to the discovery of ' what we are doing and have been taught to do may not to be the right thing' through to the joyous discovery of Propers, and liturgy at a whole new level. (if only I could follow him in skill and talent, not just in aspiration!)
The liturgy on the first Musica Sacra day in Scotland was awesome, being my first, and so far only experience of a wholly sung liturgy, with Propers, ordinary and the inestimable Fr Guy Nicholls presiding.
Since then in 2013, the organization he has helped get started Musica Sacra Scotland continues to go from strength to strength. -
Um... this is not the whole story about Macmillian: here is the rest:
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/culture/jmacmillan/100048309/how-trendy-liturgists-tried-to-stop-my-mass-being-performed-for-the-pope/ -
They also have a commitment to the kind of cod-Celticness that owes more to the soundtracks of The Lord of the Rings and Braveheart, than anything remotely authentic.
God, I love this guy. -
cod-Celticness
Stimson, if we're intellectually honest, then everyone's appropriation in Stanford's collected tunes in his primer (at office, can't specify) would require dismissal, pun intended. KINGSFOLD, ST. PATRICK'S BREASTPLATE, ABBOT'S LEIGH, SLANE, (that's a penny's worth of Brits not to mention Dvorak, Smetana and others.....all to the wastebin. JM's casual remark does not reflect any serious consideration for the soundtrack composers (need I list the large litany of 20th giant composers who didn't sell their souls and came up with monster works?) wherein art music is still cultivated whether by the likes of Mac or Corigliano, or posers like Glass. Would that classical music in the church could benefit from the likes of Thomas Newman or Hans Zimmer. Do you really think Copland or Bernstein (owing their genus to Stravinski) are more worthy composers than Newmans or others out there?
Last night I had the opportunity to watch John Huston's legendary "Treasure of the Sierra Madre." It seems to me that sometimes we trad purists are as dumb as Bogart, asking for badges, stinkin' badges to prove someone's pedigree. Popule meus....
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'...Copland...(owing [his] genus [sic] to Stravinski)...'
????????
Copland???? What an extraordinarily bold assertion!
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Melofluent, the Newmans were OK by me ever since Papa Alfred did a Samuel Barber pastiche for The Greatest Story Ever Told. Zimmer . . . well, he has his moments.
I am in no way doubting the artistic merit of film composers. They're the opera composers of today, and Lord knows it would be a boon to liturgical music if we had Zimmers and Newmans composing for the Church today. (Part of me secretly hopes either Patrick Doyle or Oingo Boingo does a mass setting at some point.)
But I still think Mac has a point about faux-Celticness. Most contemporary composers have an idea, not that all church music must be Celtic, but that it all must be an incredible simulation of Celtic. And so, most liturgical musicians get their material from what they hear - film soundtracks - which, given the benefit of the doubt, get their inspiration from authentic folk music. Soooo this church music isn't inspired by folk. It's inspired by something else inspired by folk. The game of "Compositional Telephone" has a tendency to muddle up its sources . . .
Case in point - at one of the Sunday masses in my hometown, the parish sings not only the 'Celtic Alleluia' (All too ubiquitous, but tolerable), but has also adapted the Agnus Dei to be sung to the "Love Theme" from Titanic.
I love James Horner. And I love authentic Irish music. But twice-baked Celtic folk foisted upon the liturgy sends me into a Thomas Day-inspired apoplexy.Thanked by 1CHGiffen -
Melo, with all due respect: I think there is a difference between taking authentic Celtic tunes, which I believe SLANE is, or the use of Celtic influences in the hands of a great composer like Beethoven, Mendelssohn, Stanford (who I believe was Irish), Dvorak, Copeland, et al., and the horrendous twaddle that has been marketed as "Celtic" by Catholic music publishers in the past 30 years.
[Well, so much for that comment . . . Stimson got there first.]Thanked by 1StimsonInRehab -
Great minds think alike, Salieri!
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You mean, A-ha-lay-hey-loo-hoo-hoo-ya!
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My oh my. A point of departure about discernment of the quality and assignment of collected folk idioms, which I believe to be reasonable, results in one considered response and the rest a ton of invective.
Jackson, I know that your stature as an aesthete is impeccable, but I am yet afforded my own opinion (not assertion, my statement was clear) about compositional geneology. (sp?) Is it your objective to humiliate the person rather than to consider the point s/he is advancing? Please feel free to ignore my comments if they personally offend your sensibilities.
Over the many years of my involvement here I have consistently advocated the avoidance of general/universal condemnation of perceived genres of post-V2 service music. The most unfortunate misappropriation of the "Celtic" alleluia by O'Carroll was then egregiously amplified by the contrivance called the "Celtic Mass" by Walker, implicitly as OCP's "answer" to MOC. Walker in one misguided breath can embarrass himself by another misappropriation of "Over the sea to Skye" with new age Catholic texts, and in another instance write a quite lovely version of Ps.27 ("The Lord is my light.") But within the limits superimposed such considerations that are tossed about by Mac, many here, and then the inevitable reactions of folks like Inwood or Haas, we only again prove ourselves to be a star chamber of snobbery and elitism. If one is happy about that state of affairs, more power to you.
Personally, I don't do Liam Lawton or most of John Bell (because their "faux ethos" is a cottage industry in the publishers' world.) But I sure as heck wouldn't walk up to either one of them and challenge them as to the authenticity of their views of what constitutes all things Celtic. As far as I'm concerned, Celtic music can be a myriad of things, including East Indian forms, the harp traditions of Alan Stivell and Brittany, some Spanish forms, etc. in addition to O' Carolan and Clannad (before "she" left for her new age career.)
Finally, friend Stimson, I'd sure as heck prefer the credibility of finding a suitable text for KELVINGROVE to using anything under the mantle of LONDONDERRY AIRE. That is the sort of sentimental drivel that Day was dismantling in "Why Catholics...." not all this fake Enya-inspired product. -
I tend to think James MacMillan would have authority as a Scot musician to speak on the authenticity of Celtic music, at least to the extent that the music truly does or does not reflect the ethos. Moreover, with a family-in-law of Celtic (and particularly Scottish Celtic) musicians, I understand the frustration of having Irish music paraded as Scottish, especially in the case of Braveheart, where the iconic instrument is Irish. As an Irish-American, I understand that the supreme expressiveness of the uilleann pipes supercedes all other bagpipes, but that bothers Scottish-Americans (whatever it may do to the native Scots).
But what I think MacMillan was getting at was the fact that this (pottentially faux-)Celtic music from films is finding its way into the Mass. As a lover of film music, I nevertheless recognize (but struggle with in my improvisation at the organ) the need to avoid film music styles at Church, since it runs the risk of bringing thoughts of that movie into the liturgy, among other issues. Just like avoiding pop songs at a wedding, film music is not appropriate for the Mass. Am I wrong? (Please tell me I'm wrong, and my James Horner-style Salve Regina accompaniment will appear as soon as possible). -
But what I think MacMillan was getting at was the fact that this (potentially faux-)Celtic music from films is finding its way into the Mass.
And concerned he should be. That said, this "problem" is well documented before "L'homme arme" found its way into a cantus firmus.
We have belabored both text and setting approbation here numerous times in numerous threads. What gets my attention and dander up is when we summarily dismiss whole catalogues from certain "writers" and turn around and defend or use EIN FESTE BURG or ST. ANNE'S as not at all inappropriate for RC usage at Mass. It's akin to Salieri's defense of SLANE as being deemed (by whom?) as authentically "Celtic/Irish/whatever,' and then concurring that a wholesale dismissal of "Celtic-sounding" new hymnody is noble and needed.
Piece by piece analysis. Level ground. When the Curia has the gumption to finally advise a synod and a pope that chant and polyphony solely occupy THE place and means for authentic sacred worship music, then we will struggle with such issues. And until that time, MacMillan's voice just adds to everyone else's CO2.
PSAs an Irish-American, I understand that the supreme expressiveness of the uilleann pipes supercedes all other bagpipes, but that bothers Scottish-Americans (whatever it may do to the native Scots).
Another distraction, and can of worms. A melody is a melody. Period or Ethnic instrument authenticity should not be a concern of a discerning musician. Is a solid gold or silver flute a simulacrum of a 19th/21st century mahagony Boehm/Quantz flute, or an 1812 open hole, single mechanism baroque flute?
It is about, in this case, the music itself, not its delivery system. -
In the case of the uilleann pipes, the instrument is extremely important. The plaintive cry of that instrument destroys the nasally wail of the small pipes, or the loud tonelessness of the Highland bagpipes.
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Purple here is indeed sarcasm, as I don't worry about these particulars in my life as a sacred musician.
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But the point about level ground is well-taken. Judge a piece on its merits, as that is how it stands in the liturgy.
There is still the question of what exactly MS means when it says that sacred music is taken as music composed for a religious purpose. When does the appropriation of secular music by the Church turn a piece into religious music? That is not rhetorical, as I face such decisions often. Lord of All Hopefulness is a good hymn (IMHO), and I select it, but I also always wonder how it relates to MS. -
Sorry, Greg -
I love bagpipes and could listen to them for hours... especially in a pipe and drum corps. When I go to teach my piano students at St Thomas' Episcopal School, I get to hear them practicing on the parish garth after school is out. This group is good! They have repeatedly won first place at international competitions in Scotland. Perhaps, though, you have a point: I think that lone pipers piping at funerals could be rather tawdry, even maudlin.
We don't, though, have any pipes and drums at Walsingham. But we do have a peal of bells. I have an OLW medalion cast from the bronze from which came our bells. -
You mean, of course, besides his Mass setting(s)? (I only know of one Mass of his, hence the uncertain plural...)
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If I may offer another pithy observation about our "piping" digression from a popular culture, not historical perspective. I believe that there are certain moments in films from the later third of the 20th century that become iconic and significant so much that they find their way into worship. I'll mention two. In the opening credits of "Ordinary People" a school choir is singing (I don't remember the text) a version of Kanon in D. I've only seen the film once, but I think the Pachelbel is used throughout. After that, it seemed that the piece became a standard for wedding processionals in every parish in America. In the film "The Onion Field" the murdered policeman's gravesite scene featured (IIRC) a lone piper is playing the ubiquitous "Amazing Grace." Again, along with Judy Collin's famed recording, that hymn found its way into most funerals.
Or it could simply be coincidental in the abyss of my mind's eye. -
Matthew, as a tunesmith, Vaughan Williams took his inspiration from folk tunes in many cases.
http://www.ccel.org/cceh/archives/eee/enghml.htm
Thanked by 1CHGiffen -
Bagpipes in their native Scotland sound different from bagpipes here in the flatlands of California (and I've heard them in both).
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16935534322_b4988b3e1a_m.jpg240 x 180 - 17K -
Hi Dad (I just love saying that!)
My first reaction was that her objection was a non sequitur. It's now become, from our own volition, a subterfuge. What said activist declared is moot. The question she infers, quite valid, is whether Latin, which would mean all volumes from authorized sources such as from France and the Vatican, love 'em, hate 'em, will ever be successfully implemented as normative resources for OF/EF music resources.
Whaddyou think? -
Kathy, oh yes... RVW’s folk influences are well-known to me. I was being goofy with my comment.
As far as the OF goes, the liturgical law means one can go from any extreme and still be rubrical. As far the EF goes, we have spoken Latin propers. Whether the sung Mass becomes normative depends on the ability of the EF to spread and the ability to outgrow a love for the 1950s which I think is possible, but it will be painful and will depend a great deal on diocesan clergy. For whatever reason they seem to be the ones who more effectively stamp out the 1950s Low Mass and banal hymn culture (it probably also has to do with the FSSP are in one "ghetto" as traditionally-minded, a second because they are a society of apostolic life who were invited to the diocese by the bishop). -
The inspiration for the "Celtic Alleluia" is undoubtedly the 3/4 time Gaelic Christmas carol Taladh Chriosda:
https://youtu.be/nj44ICE_AAg
The original is authentically, hauntingly "Celtic" in flavour, while the major-key imitation sounds more like a German beer-hall waltz. -
As far as that activist is concerned, (were she the Queen, in the style of Lucy/Peanuts), there would be zero Latin in any Mass, ever, period
Out on a limb here....
Perhaps it's time that we invoked the enology analogy: banning Latin would be tantamount to banning Bordeaux appellation grapes from becoming wines. Simply put: criminal. At the same time, vintages from all sorts of appellations, from those which end up as Grappa to those which end up as ice wines, still are deemed wine. If "Lucy" can't tell how there's a difference AND likeness between an Alps Trousseau and a Barefoot Shiraz, how qualified is she to determine that Latin, pardon the pun, has no place at the table.? -
Returning to John Romeri- Having known John in Saint Louis for some ten years, I can truthfully say that he is the epitome of the true Master of Sacred Music. I watched him prepare the music for the Papal Visit to Saint Louis in 1999, an event that covered four venues, including a football stadium. John encouraged the commissioning of some very fine music both for the Mass at the TWA Dome and Vespers at the Cathedral Basilica. In the midst of all the organizing and administrative work, John managed to also be the consummate conductor. Few directors today could get Palestrina's "Tu es Petrus" to sound any better than he did at the Papal Mass. With an orchestra that included some of the finest players in the Saint Louis Symphony, an Archdiocesan Choir of over 200, and the Archdiocesan Children's Choir, he produced music of the highest caliber. However, the papal visit was just one achievement in a very long list. He raised the bar for choral excellence, repertoire, etc. He built up an exemplary program for young musicians, many of whom are now starting to take their places in highly respected programs and at major universities and conservatories. His Cathedral Concerts program has continued and become a Saint Louis treasure, bringing to the city some of the world's finest choral ensembles. On a personal note, I used to look forward to those times when I wasn't committed at my own parish when I could go to the Cathedral as an anonymous PIP. It was always a great spiritual "lift". Most important of all, John was a generous teacher to all the musicians of the Archdiocese and a great diplomat. I learned a great deal from John Romeri and will always treasure the friendship.
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