Sounds like time for a choir committee to have tea and conversation with the pastor.

Do you need the money and can't quit? If not, wish her well as you sail into the sunset - taking as many choir members with you as possible.

I am desperate enough that before I got the job we visited food pantries at the end of some months. I don't want to go back to that. I thought I was imagining things sometimes or even felt silly for posting this discussion. I'm relieved that I'm not crazy...although I feel like I am going crazy.

I have applied for another non-music job because I need a "real" job to support music habit and pay for my kid's orthodontic gadgets, but it will be some time before I hear anything about it.

Pray for me :( And for my crazy director. She's not evil, she's just clueless.

I cannot leave, and I don't necessarily want to either. I just don't know how much longer I can smile and nod before I explode in a ball of fiery anger and quit...My anger can lay dormant for a long time, simmer for years, and then it's the next Mt St. Helens. I need to figure this out before that happens...

I have reached an understanding with God, that I am grateful that He in his great love for humanity is willing to love and accept the dysfunctional. But as I pointed out to Him, my gratitude doesn't extend to putting up with the scrawny and paranoid, the chubby and disorganized, or any others who don't even do a good job of running their own lives, much less attempting to direct others. I also noted that just because He loves them, doesn't mean I have to deal with them. So there! LOL.

Oh yes the disorganization, under the guise of impeccable organization, and repeated accusations of "Didn't I give you that piece? I gave you this too, oh well I will get another copy for you." Nope sorry you never gave me that music...YOU forgot, not me.

@SeasonPsalt: I have no doubt that she experienced some kind of trauma early on in her life. But I am with Charles in many ways here-I can't fix her. I can pray for her, I can stay tight lipped because my desire to maintain my own dignity and ability to buy groceries overrides my desire to tell her right off, but I don't have to like her. I also believe I should not be beaten into silence either. Thanks for the kind thoughts everyone.

Classic emotional manipulator with no intention of examining her own behavior.
She's not evil, she's just clueless.

First time you accurately assessed the situation.
Second time you made excuses for her.
She counts on it.
Googling her behaviours should produce items that offer alternatives
that help you hold your line and defend yourself without attacking her.
Modeling them helps choir members and even the poor husband.

Don't those Safe Environment things help identify a bully?

First, today is the first day of the rest of your life. Keep a written log of incidents.

Oh and don't even get me started on how she nags and argues with her husband, who also sings in the choir, on a daily basis and the constant awkwardness of that hot mess.

Maybe this behavior can become the point to present, because it's not between her and you, but it creates an atmosphere of conflict and anger and therefore intimidation. A prudent pastor might hear about this and decide to put a stop to it by regretfully removing the husband from choir. It doesn't matter if he's the only tenor or the only bass.

Thanks!

It sounds like a pretty abusive situation to me. I'm sorry. I know that you're worried about losing your job if you talk to the pastor, but what if a few choir members went with you to talk to him? He needs to know if something like this is going on, and that way all of the blame wouldn't be put on you.

I'll be praying that something works out for you. Maybe she'll move, or maybe a better job will come up for you. Hang in there.

She is expecting her first grandchild, so I am going to get her a nice little card and maybe use that as a springboard for conversation, ask her how she is doing, maybe say "Hey, you seem a little stressed lately is everything alright?"

That might be a good way to open up the conversation. I just know that you're a much more patient and forgiving person than I am.

Good luck, and my prayers are with you.

I'm currently serving as assistant to a DM who has been in place for over 11 years. She and I get along well, despite her full knowledge (or perhaps to her credit in spite of it) of my sensibilities and core principles surrounding the RotR and the restoration of Gregorian chant and sacred polyphony to the Mass. I have learned quickly and most likely thanks to the brutal treatment I received in the end at my former parish - one that is by all accounts committed to the same principles, but has permitted a number of "inner circle" types to control things - that one can, and should, express one's knowledge and carefully formed opinions on these matters in the most charitable and (dare I use the word) "pastoral" way possible. In this way, I have found that people for the most part are willing and open to hearing what I have to share, and in some cases they've expressed appreciation for the knowledge I've shared.

To her credit, the DM has in her own ways come to my defense when "spirit of the Council" types who are long-standing and respected colleagues of hers in the area make unnecessarily provocative remarks about various subjects they believe to be "hot button" and likely to rile me up. They keep trying to bait me, and I refuse to rise to it.

So in this way I'm lucky. Very lucky. My current supervisor, I believe, has a healthy respect for my skills and knowledge and would not do anything to jeopardize the collegial relationship we've forged. There have been times when things have gotten a bit tense. But because we both know well that there are folk on the outside looking in who were quite literally taking bets that I wouldn't last in this current situation, we're both too stubborn and determined to let that happen. From this sense of challenge we've developed a cooperative alliance. She does not share in the harassment others in the circle engage in because of my preferences for a more "orthodox" musical and liturgical practice, and I don't criticize or challenge her for certain musical choices she makes that I may find problematic. It's called diplomacy.

There is, however, one very nasty bit of political water that I must navigate carefully when certain folk within the program or parish seem interested in dragging me into their agendas, and I'm thankful that years of experience have brought me to a place where I can say to these folk, "I appreciate your concern and your opinion, and please understand that I must be Switzerland in this matter."

So, I wish everyone well who faces difficulties. I'm forever reminded of Red Green's little bromide: "Remember, I'm pulling for ya. We're all in this together."

JDE and David, my heart is full of joy and hope because your voices grace these "pages" again, wise...learned.....earnest....truthful and charitable. You guys are the best!

...I never give up on people-it's a bad habit.

No it is not a bad habit. But I wonder do you think there is a contradiction between standing up for yourself and helping someone else? It is not either/or. If they don't know how to behave properly it is a loving thing to do to teach them (by example, or word ) that you are a child of God to be respected , and that anything less is not acceptable behaviour in the household of God.
In Matthew, Jesus gives us a sensibly escalating way of going about it : first in private, (as you are doing, a place to be compassionate and listening, but also direct in a way that will expose her sins without exposing her to pubic shame) - but then with witnesses ( a loving wake up call) and finally formally. If that doesn't work, the relationship is to be severed, but we always 'pray for our enemies' so we never completely abandon them, but for their sake we do not let sin fester and grow.
If life experience has overwhelmed us with an experience where we couldn't do this (for example with a parent when we were to young to be able to be that assertive) it can be a hard lesson to learn, easier to revert to the learnt pattern of staying quiet and then getting out, but how marvellous if we can get beyond that.
Anyway, continuing to pray for you, that God will bless you and strengthen you.

I hesitated to suggest this, but...having written it, I am strongly in favor of this.

Many choir members are recording rehearsals for review at home. When in a situation in which there may be misunderstanding of what has occurred has happened, it would be very useful to have an actual audio or video recording to refer to.

A video record would be appropriate when working with a children's choir in case of anything happening - including a child falling, a bullying incident - so why not institute video recordings of all choir rehearsals.

Then, if something happens, it would be possible to meet with the pastor privately, air the incident and give him the opportunity to evaluate and deal with the situation.

If the decision is used to follow the When Sheep Attack formula and meet with the pastor and the person that one is having difficulty with, the knowledge of all that there is a video record alone may help, without having to show it.

However, if the person refuses to admit or understand what they have done, the pastor could pull of the video and share it with the person and talk it over.

This may sound really intrusive to some. But innuendos, rumors and outright lies are intrusive to the soul of a person. It's your choice.

Ask Noel about the former music director in our city who was a friend of the pastor, but couldn't read music. It happens!

And he appointed her music director of the cathedral and the diocese. After firing a member of this list who had been there 19 years...