Opening a can of worms?
  • jonmclear
    Posts: 15
    Greetings,
    Our parish has seen an influx of Praise and Worship bands. We had none a year ago and now we have two. They don't play at Mass, but they do play for open gym nights, school assemblies, "open" for speaker series talks, and have "Praise and Worship Nights." All of these events take place in the school gym (new this year). I believe on a few occasions, they have played more reflective music during holy hours in the church. We have a "Contemporary Ensemble" that plays at one Mass every Sunday, but nothing in the style of what's going on on the gym stage. Some of the Contemporary Ensemble members are part of one of the P&W bands.

    Someone recently asked me why it was okay for this style of music to be used during Adoration of our Lord, but not at Mass. Has anyone dealt with a situation similar to this and how did you prevent (or allow) this style of music to make its way into the Mass. Where is the line? My Pastor asked if I was okay with all of this. I told him I was as long as it was outside of Mass. Was that the correct response? Have I allowed a can of worms to be opened?

    I should probably mention that one of the two bands is headed up by our newly-ordained Parochial Vicar.

    Thanks!
    Jon
  • Jeffrey TuckerJeffrey Tucker
    Posts: 3,624
    As you suspect, it sounds like trouble brewing to me. However, at least some consciousness exists that liturgy requires different music from the rest of life. This is the major point. In any case, holy hours would seem to be part of liturgical life, so dance, pop styles would be completely out of line.
  • Dan F.Dan F.
    Posts: 205
    I don't know where I read it, but I recall that adoration of the Blessed Sacrament is really a kind of extension of the mass since Our Lord becomes truly present through the sacramental action of the priest at mass. So the logic of the questioner about why is praise music ok at adoration and not at mass is a logical one. Similarly, if you'd like to avoid the seepage of praise bands into mass you'd do well to continue to find places for the bands outside of adoration too.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    Praise Bands are entirely appropriate when people get together to share their own personal experiences, as this music is focused almost entirely on the participants rather than God in any form or name.

    But when in the Presence of the Blessed Sacrament self, and self-music, should be conspicuously absent.

    Just one reason why choirs, if singing a special program in the Sanctuary, and Directors do not stand in front of the Tabernacle.

    Focus, people, focus, as the photography teachers used to say. Now I guess they say, Batteries, people, batteries.

    And to Jeffrey >o< !
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    I would explain that the Mass has norms regarding its music, while there are no explicit norms (that I'm aware of) for music for adoration, aside from "Tantum Ergo". Anyway, you can add "but we have to have the praise band at adoration so the young people will come! And there's no point of moving them to the Mass, since the young people already come to that out of their obligation."
  • benedictgal
    Posts: 798
    We had a quasi praise-group perform the music during the Cursillo retreat I lived two years ago. It was awful. The noise was just that, noise. It was like putting Nacho Cheese on Filet Mignon, a bad combination that leaves one with an upset stomach.
  • a1437053a1437053
    Posts: 198
    So, guitars at adoration or not?
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    No. no. nO. Oh, no.

    Inserting a rhythmic element that is to bring people together during Adoration, which is a direct personal experience, makes about as much sense as a congregation being expected to pick up, carry, sing from, yet magically then free both hands to receive communion in the hand, and then, after gulping down the Host so as to begin singing again before getting totally lost and unable to find ones place in the hymn.

    Did I say no? Habe ich bereits gesagt, dass mindestens einmal? Non ho già detto che almeno una volta? はないが、少なくとも私はすでに一度言ったことがありますか？
  • JamJam
    Posts: 636
    日本語で話せます、Frogman? いつから？
  • orourkebr
    Posts: 57
    What do the liturgical books and /or documents say about Eucharistic Adoration?
    As I recall it just says hymns, etc., can be sung after Tantum Ergo.

    At my parish, which is pretty traditional we have had Holy Hours with the youth group where we use just an acoustic guitar for praise music...does anything specifically rule this out? This would never be allowed at Holy Mass certainly at our parish.
  • JamJam
    Posts: 636
    I've been to adoration one time when an hour of praise-band rock music was followed by a solemnly chanted benediction by their liturgically-minded deacon. It felt really incongruous. Like they collectively had multiple-personality disorder or something.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    言語のわたしは貧しい学生。私はひらがなを読むことができます。

    I am just a poor student of Japanese. I can only read Hiragana.
  • JamJam
    Posts: 636
    I lived in Japan for six years, and studied Japanese for five years in school, so naturally I jumped on your post when I saw you post in Japanese.

    I've been to Mass in Japan, too. I went to a Japanese Mass only once. It was run by Franciscans, and the celebrant had an awesome booming homily voice and an awesome beard (for a Japanese guy!). But it was musically and rubrically a mediocre Novus Ordo. the English Masses, mostly for folks from the American embassy, suffered from the same liturgical shortcomings as most American masses. And they used pre-recorded music on a Yamaha keyboard for accompaniment for the choir.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    What do the liturgical books and /or documents say about Eucharistic Adoration?
    As I recall it just says hymns, etc., can be sung after Tantum Ergo.

    The rite of "Worship of the Holy Eucharist Outside Mass" (1973) says that there can be readings of Scripture, "songs", prayers, and periods of silence during Exposition.
  • a1437053a1437053
    Posts: 198
    So, the documents ALLOW introspective (not "community inducing") song accompanied with acoustic guitar? With, of course, O Salutaris and Tantum Ergo!

    Chonak's quote of document seems to allow a lot! While we hope to have quiet strumming accompanying singing... it seems open to a lot. A wider freedom than Mass propers?
  • JamJam
    Posts: 636
    I would think that the people who wrote the liturgical documents didn't expect to have to explicitly forbid a lot of things people do now. They problem didn't even consider those things remote possibilities at the time.

    That's the trouble with so much canon law and other similarly binding documents. Try as they might, they can never be completely exhaustive resources.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    Strumming is expressly prohibited by canon law.

    I just can't find the reference.

    [it's a joke, but a sad one]

    Strumming new age chord patterns might be vaguely acceptable, but doing anything in major or minor puts the mind into a modern time structure. Music that is tonal from its first note indicates where you are in time in the piece.

    Chant, since it defies the restrictions of time structure, is the chosen form of music for the Mass and Adoration.

    That's where it gets its timeless label.
  • orourkebr
    Posts: 57
    Thanks Chonak...that was the phrase to which I was referring.
    It's quite vague, and leaves much room for interpretation...not a good thing.
  • IanWIanW
    Posts: 756
    The weekend's gone and no still no sign of the promised further conversation. Shame.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    A solo guitar piece in classical style during a quiet time might be suitable. A cappella singing would be very nice--

    Oh, good Heavens, what are we doing: adding to some old thread that was started in December. Sink it?
  • JamJam
    Posts: 636
    Does it matter when it was started, if there are still good comments being left on it?
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