EF English Hymns
  • It would be interesting to post a list of the most popular hymns sung before and after EF Mass in the order of popularity;

    By the way, I realize we are missing two category listings: EF and NO
  • Holy God, We Praise Thy Name
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,151
    That hymn is probably the most popular (traditional) English hymn for NO as well as EF, especially at the conclusion of Mass.
    Thanked by 1Liam
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,388
    That hymn is probably the most popular (traditional) English hymn for NO as well as EF, especially at the conclusion of Mass.

    That certainly was true 50-60 years ago, but I doubt that it is today. The NPM survey from a few years ago ranked it no. 6.

    http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0600465.htm

    Keep in mind, however, that Noel asked about "most popular hymns" while CHG responded with a comment about "the most popular (traditional) English hymn."
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Noel, even tho' the thread title says English hymns, in my experience with low EF Masses, the "ending" hymn most commonly sung would be the simple "Salve Regina."
    Thanked by 1Adam Wood
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,151
    With all respect Fr Ron, the NPM survey is somewhat irrelevant in that it is an online poll asking which liturgical song most fostered and nourished the respondent's life. The OP asked for the most popular hymns (not "songs") sung before and after EF Mass. The assertion about the NO Mass is based upon my own experience over the past 30 years in the NO "traditional" (as opposed to "contemporary") Masses.
    Thanked by 1Ben
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    That certainly was true 50-60 years ago, but I doubt that it is today. The NPM survey from a few years ago ranked it no. 6.

    http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0600465.htm

    Keep in mind, however, that Noel asked about "most popular hymns" while CHG responded with a comment about "the most popular (traditional) English hymn."


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    Thanked by 1Adam Wood
  • Ben probably drinks Pepsi, too.

    That NMP poll is seriously flawed - it should have been titled:

    What songs became popular when RENEWAL took over many parishes and were featured by presenters as part of their witness to new people being inducted.

    Then it would have been 100% accurate.
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,388
    Sorry, Chuck, I certainly meant no disrespect. I only responded because I thought that in your first comment you were broadening the question from what Noel had proposed, namely "the most popular hymns sung before and after EF Mass."

    Also, I never realized that your use of "NO" was meant to refer only to "traditional" NO Masses, not all NO Masses.

    I'm not sure what this discussion will produce in the way of information if it's only limited to personal and anecdotal experiences.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • It will produce many interesting off-topic comments to brighten our days.
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    Great topic, Noel, and I'll try to stay on it. For many years my experience with the EF Mass or the OF Latin Mass was the Salve Regina as the concluding hymn and sometimes Holy God, and that was it.

    When I came to our present chapel, the pastor gave me The Anglican Hymnal 1982 and for four years we've chosen our hymns mainly from it and also from The English Hymnal. We have quite a repertoire now, but I think the most popular recessional hymns among our congregation are these (in the Sundays after Pentecost, that is):

    O God beyond all praising
    I sing the almighty power of God
    Praise my soul the King of heaven
    Lord of all hopefulness
    The Church's one foundation
    God my king thy might confessing
    Immaculate Mary (arr. by Andrew Carter)
    O praise ye the Lord
    O Jesus crowned with all reknown
    Father all loving who rulest in majesty
    Joyful, joyful we adore Thee
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    The most popular entrance hymns in the Sundays after Pentecost:

    Come down, O love divine
    Worship the Lord in the beauty of holiness
    Where charity and love prevail (Windsor Old)
    All creatures of our God and King
    Maker of earth to Thee alone
    My song is love unknown (our pastor's favorite!)
    Rejoice the Lord is King
    Only begotten, Word of God eternal
    Christ the fair glory of the holy angels
    Ye holy angels bright
  • O God Almighty Father
    To Jesus Christ our Sovereign King
    Hail, Holy Queen
    Immaculate Mary
    Thanked by 1noel jones, aago
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,704
    Here in England it is the Tradition to sing the relevant Marian Anthem at the end of Sung Mass (EF), so we have just started singing the Alma... again.

    We usually sing the simple tone but on Feasts of Our Lady we sing the Solemn tone, we were at one time discouraged from singing the solemn, but now my children ( 9yr old girl and 4 boys 7, 6, 4, 2,) can sing the solemn tones with gusto! no one can complain they can't sing them. We have also trained the local Homeschool group (50 children!) to sing both tones of all the anthems...

    We also occasionally sing polyphonic settings!

    So no time for an English Hymn...
  • Interesting with JulieColl that really fine quality english hymns are being sung due to the EF!
    Thanked by 1JulieColl
  • At our EF high masses, we normally do not sing a recessional hymn. After the last gospel, the clergy, servers and congregation sing the seasonal Marian antiphon while standing facing the altar. Then the organ plays a recessional to accompany the procession of the clergy and servers out of the church, witnessed by the congregation. (In Advent and Lent, this procession takes place in silence.)

    We don't sing a hymn during the procession into the church at the beginning of Mass, having organ or silence instead.

    At low Mass, we normally do not have music other than the seasonal Marian antiphon after the last gospel. On special days, the organ is used to add greater solemnity.
    Thanked by 2JulieColl CHGiffen
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    Tomjaw, that's awesome news about your children's schola! We started one this fall, and the children bring such joy to everyone.

    I think it's fascinating to see the diversity of music programs at the EF Mass. Obviously, the development of a music paradigm depends a great deal on the local circumstances. In our case, English (Anglican) recessional and processional hymns worked very well since our pastor and some members of the congregation were very familiar with them and expressed a desire to have them. Also we don't have an organ, and I can't quite manage a grand organ processional on my little Yamaha keyboard. : )

    Our little chapel setting easily lends itself to congregational singing since the schola is right in the nave with the people. A "populist" orientation is natural for us also because most of our congregation come from the OF, and the vernacular hymns help them feel more at home and make the structure of the Mass seem more familiar.

    That's not to say that other paradigms aren't just as valid and just as beautiful. On the Feast of All Saints we had a Solemn High Mass at the St. James Cathedral Basilica of Brooklyn and were very blessed to be accompanied by the virtuoso organist there. The occasion just demanded a splendid organ processional which was an enormous treat for all of us.

    However, we sang three verses of For All the Saints with descant for the recessional which was quite splendiferous, and that was followed by a sublime organ recessional, Dialogue Pour Les Grands Jeux (Jacques Boyvin 1649-1706). I wouldn't have missed any of that for the world and it all came together so wonderfully for the occasion, but a cathedral is a far different venue than a little cemetery chapel so you have to adjust accordingly---a point which was probably already obvious to everyone to begin with, but I just find the musical spectrum one finds at EF Masses such an intriguing subject.
    Thanked by 1StimsonInRehab
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    Continuing on with this subject this morning, if Noel doesn't mind the diversion, about the phenomenon of established EF music paradigms. Because EF musicians have had to, in some sense, re-invent the wheel after the EF fell into disuse after Vatican II, it's quite fascinating to see what has evolved at different venues and in different regions.

    You don't really see a one-size-fits-all approach as you tend to see in the OF. There aren't any standard hymnals, for one thing, and the music team have to rely mostly on their own instincts, research and creativity to design a program.

    The factors that come into play are obviously the musicians' background and capabilities, the preference of the pastor, etc., but I think to some degree also, the nature of the congregation, and maybe even the architecture and setting of the church or chapel itself have their influence.
    Thanked by 1noel jones, aago
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    P.S. My apologies for popping up again, but my husband just reminded me of something very interesting, for whatever it's worth.

    He said that when he was in his early twenties, there was a video that came out featuring an EF Solemn High Mass offered in England. The video was called, if I'm not mistaken, The Most Beautiful Thing This Side of Heaven.

    Although my husband was reared in an SSPX parish where it seemed to him that the music never changed for 10 years and Mass always ended with Holy God We Praise Thy Name, this video from England ended with four verses of The Church's One Foundation.

    When he watched this, it was a revelation that moved him literally to tears (he's Italian after all!) He had never seen or experienced the power and beauty of an EF congregation singing with such faith, unity and devotion. He was so moved by that and convinced at that moment of the empowering nature of the liturgy that he made up his mind then and there that if he was ever given the chance to do music at an EF Mass, he would incorporate what the English do so well in the area of hymnody, or at least did so well there.

    He also came to believe that the use of vernacular hymnody works wonderfully well with chant and polyphony because there seems to be a synergistic power that emerges when people are able to experience and participate in a Mass that employs the full arsenal of the Church's treasury of sacred music because there is something different in each of the elements, i.e, sung propers, sung Ordinary, polyphony and English hymnody that satisfies a different part of the human soul and heart. When all these things are put together in a thematic, organic way in one Eucharistic celebration, what emerges, in our experience at least, is a Catholic experience that leaves one filled and renewed.
  • oldhymnsoldhymns
    Posts: 220
    Julie,
    The video to which you refer, The Most Beautiful Thing This Side of Heaven, is very well done indeed. The hymn to which you refer, though, is actually Father Caswall's "O Jesus Christ, Remember" sung to the Aurelia melody of the more-popular "The Church's One Foundation," which you referenced. It appears in the Westminster Hymnal and several others.
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    Thanks so much for this, oldhymns! We love the melody so much, now we can sing it with Fr. Caswall's text.
    Thanked by 1oldhymns
  • oldhymnsoldhymns
    Posts: 220

    Last year I was asked by the music director of a large urban parish if I could come up with a list of what I thought were the most popular English Catholic hymns prior to Vatican II. He wanted this information for a hymnal he is preparing that includes both traditional and contemporary hymns for his parish. I gladly complied and came up with the list of the “top 20” below. (I also have another list of the top 75…LOL). At the start of this discussion, Noel asked for Mass hymns sung in English, so it is necessary to note that many of the hymns on this list were sung at extra-liturgical services, rather than at Mass (i.e., novenas, May devotions, Sacred Heart devotions, Holy Hours, Stations of the Cross, Benediction, and so forth). Chiefly, though, the hymns were sung by Catholic parochial school students in their classrooms. The list is not meant to be a compilation or a judgment of good/bad hymns or appropriate/inappropriate hymns but merely a list of what was popular prior to about 1965.

    Although subjective, and definitely not scientific, the list is based on several factors:

    1. An examination of at least fifty pre-Vatican II hymnals but chiefly The Catholic Chapel Hymnal, published originally by McLaughlin & Reilly in 1944 with revised editions in 1954 and 1958. Consisting of about 100 hymns, this publication is the result of a survey conducted by M&R of Catholic Chaplains in World War II asking for “titles of hymns best known to servicemen as indicated by spontaneous congregational participation during chapel services.”
    2. An examination of the two books authored by J. Vincent Higginson and published by the Hymn Society of America: History of American Catholic Hymnals, Survey and Background (1982) and Handbook for American Catholic Hymnals (1976). Higginson, who often wrote with the pseudonym, Cyr de Brant, was an outstanding researcher. He served as editor of the Catholic Choirmaster and was a Fellow of the Hymn Society of America.
    3. Conversations and correspondence with Vincent Higginson in the 1980s.
    4. Discussions over a period of many years with organists in the pre-Vatican II church (most of whom are now deceased) who were “in the know” about this type of music.

    Holy God We Praise Thy Name
    O Lord, I Am Not Worthy
    Jesus, My Lord, My God, My All
    Mother Dear, O Pray for Me
    Mother Dearest, Mother Fairest
    Bring Flowers of the Fairest
    To Jesus, Heart All Burning
    O Sacred Heart! O Love Divine!
    Soul of My Savior
    Faith of Our Fathers
    Come Holy Ghost
    Mother at Your Feet is Kneeling
    Heart of Jesus, Hear!
    On This Day, O Beautiful Mother
    Mother of Christ
    Good Night, Sweet Jesus
    ‘Tis the Month of Our Mother
    Immaculate Mary
    Dear Guardian of Mary
    O God of Loveliness
  • Nisi
    Posts: 146
    Is there a nice descant for "Holy God, We Praise Thy Name"?
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,694
    CBWIII has one.
    Thanked by 1Nisi
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    Not that I have wide experience, but when I have programmed music for EF Masses (High & Low), I have included the following hymns at Beginning and End, to my recollection:

    Praise my soul, the King of heaven
    Come down, O Love divine
    O Sanctissima (Latin & English)
    Immaculate Mary
    Praise to the Lord
    Holy God, we Praise thy Name
    O God, beyond all praising
    To Jesus Christ our Sovereign King

    (These were during the times After Epiphany or After Pentecost; obviously during Advent, Christmas, etc., the hymns would've been appropriate for the Season.)