Liturgical Suicide
  • francis
    Posts: 10,825
    Inspired by the post "reinventing the wheel" (lol)
    koerberLiturgicalSuicide.jpg
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  • Blaise
    Posts: 439
    I thought that truck was throwing away copies of, ehem, "hymnals" (my list of the most detested not to be named to protect the guilty) before I clicked on the picture to zoom. Woops.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,825
    It's kind of a political cartoon of sorts I guess. No, the "Catholic Liturgy" is hauling away the Libers and the Graduals on its runaway course.

    It's pretty rich with symbolism. You could say the ground that becomes a cliff is the Church, which the truck is quickly driving off. Of course, "Darth Mammon" is driving the truck and the publishers are giving him "wheels". The wheels, however, are square and make for a very bumpy ride. The "Parish Collections" fuel the whole scenario. Of course, the "stink" of it all is the advertising, subscriptions and constant barrage of promotions that we all get in the mail and is pushed via the clergy and staff of parishes who are either ignorant or uneducated about what the liturgy is supposed to be about. Of course, in the end, only Darth Mammon is committing suicide. Unfortunately, he is taking us all for a scary ride!

    I got my first Liber from a stack that was being thrown out. Another from a priest who had it in seminary and didn't need it anymore.
  • ryandryand
    Posts: 1,640
    Another from a priest who had it in seminary and didn't need it anymore.


    "Now that you're officially a priest, you won't be needing these liturgical books any more."

    Said no ordination ever.
    Thanked by 2francis Ben
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    While I am not a fan of everything that GIA sells, I do have to say, that they do carry quite a bit of good, authentic, sacred music. The Ars Antiqua Choralis series is particularly good. To be frank, of the Big Three, I think that GIA is generally of higher quality - which I think is because they understand the idea of permanence. Whereas OCP and WLP make their living off of disposables, GIA focuses on permanent resources - hardbound hymnals, etc.

    And the fact that I don't like everything that GIA sells is not GIA's fault: I don't like everything that Oxford University Press or ChesterNovello or Universal Edition sell either. They are companies that are trying to make money in a capitalist (more or less) system, they do that by selling what people want across a large spectrum of varying styles.
  • SkirpRSkirpR
    Posts: 854
    @Salieri, I agree with your comments. Perhaps a little simplified, but I would put it this way: that while I tend not to agree with the editorial taste as much as I do with other publishers, I do agree with their style of presenting the material - not only with online hymnals, but also in acknowledging the fact (quite idiosyncratically on my part) that their engraving avoids an in-house typeface and is much less distracting in printed worship aids.
    Thanked by 1Salieri
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    Whereas OCP and WLP make their living off of disposables, GIA focuses on permanent resources - hardbound hymnals, etc


    Some of this has to do with copyright issues and what GIA will and won't allow in a hardbound hymnal. WLP's (beautiful) new One In Faith hymnal is missing several key "popular" hits from the GIA catalog.

    (OMG I am SO SHOCKED that copyright laws are causing problems....)

    I've said this before, but my general assessment of the Big Three goes something like:
    WLP: Provide what the Church needs.
    GIA: Decide what the Church needs.
    OCP: MONEY MONEY MONEY
    Thanked by 2Salieri Ben
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    (OMG I am SO SHOCKED that copyright laws are causing problems....)

    SO not purple. LOL.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,825
    Yes. Please don't think I am demonizing the publishers. They are out to make a living. However, when you HAVE to make a living selling liturgical resources, it is very difficult not to bend to market demand and lower common denominator (generic) pieces that ALL denominations can utilize. And, let's face it... most of the stuff is played to amateurs who fill the postions in the parish.

    As I understand it, GIA used to be the biggest supporter and promoter of GC years and years ago. GREGORIAN Institute of America. So, unfortunately, even they have strayed from the focus.

    In my mind they are all still selling square wheels (perhaps some rounder than others) when it comes to promoting authentic sacred music.
  • While people are aghast at the idea of a white list of suggested music and a black list of music not to performed - the huge increase of new music made available by publishers in order to satisfy the sudden need of music in the vernacular coupled with the church dropping its involvement in the selection of what is and what is not suitable at Mass - has backfired and been the main cause of the lack of participation by congregations.

    The more music in put in front of a congregation, the fewer people will sing.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    The more music in put in front of a congregation, the fewer people will sing.


    It's called overwhelming the victim.
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    While I am not a fan of everything that GIA sells, I do have to say, that they do carry quite a bit of good, authentic, sacred music. The Ars Antiqua Choralis series is particularly good. To be frank, of the Big Three, I think that GIA is generally of higher quality - which I think is because they understand the idea of permanence. Whereas OCP and WLP make their living off of disposables, GIA focuses on permanent resources - hardbound hymnals, etc


    I agree with this as well. I've typically found them to have the highest quality materials among any of the big three, by a long shot.
    Thanked by 1francis
  • I always wonder, how would people even know of or be in the market for awful music if no one published it and no one advertised it. It seems to me that this is just a market created for people who would never otherwise have thought of the junky things we are always being told that they 'want', that there is a 'demand for' that just erupted from nowhere. What if everybody stopped publishing Haugen and companions and started 'marketing' Whitacre, Britten, Poulenc, and Monteverdi?
    Thanked by 2CharlesW francis
  • stulte
    Posts: 355
    What if everybody stopped publishing Haugen and companions and started 'marketing' Whitacre, Britten, Poulenc, and Monteverdi?


    An untapped niche?
  • Scott_WScott_W
    Posts: 468
    What if everybody stopped publishing Haugen and companions and started 'marketing' Whitacre, Britten, Poulenc, and Monteverdi?


    Kinda reminds me of what I call "abusing the captive audience". That is, without the artificial market created by Sunday obligation (pardon the crude analogy), the stuff would die. Even atheists buy recordings of and enjoy plainchant. No one but Catholics suffering from a kind of Stockholm Syndrome listen to the greatest hits of Gather outside of Mass.
    Thanked by 1hilluminar
  • francis
    Posts: 10,825
    Does ANYONE listen to the greatest hits of Gather outside of Mass? Are there really Catholics who listen to it for enjoyment? Wow, that is a very sad thought.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    I used to listen to a lot of David Haas (and Friends) CDs, and still listen to them from time to time.
    But, then, most of his stuff that I listened to doesn't ever get used, even in the folkiest of folk Mass parishes.
    (Also, I listen to A LOT of off-the-wall indie folk and ethno-fusion music, so my tastes are hardly representative of the Boomer crowd who just want to hear On Eagles Wings every other week.)
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Whitacre- doesn't require marketing, he owns choral YouTube. Also, he will be but a footnote in the future Grout.
    Britten- can one market huge choirs to popularize his ouveure?
    Poulenc- the French don't require markets. They're boutique, as Rocco Palmo referes to us. Frankly (get it?) I'd rather be regarded as a Chateau Rothschild than Yellow Tail Shiraz.
    Monteverdi- old Claud don't need marketing, he da Man, ask Orfeo.
    Thanked by 1ZacPB189